Why does the UK hate cyclists?

[FortuitousFluke]

yeah because crossing the road without looking while on a mobile phone is perfectly normal? cmon it was 50/50 on that.

I can confirm that outside London Bridge Station it is completely normal. I'm starting to think it's actually compulsory and I just didn't get the memo. Any day now I expect to be issued a fixed penalty notice for using due care and attention.

 

[ubersonic]

Well they were both a fault, she was crossing a busy road while using her moblie, not looking at all, but they seem to down play this aspect.

Probably because it was an unverified claim made by a pathological liar.

It could have just as easliy been a legal method of transport that killed her.

According to the experts if his bike had brakes he would have been able to stop, this was influential in his conviction/sentencing. Having said that, if he had tried to swerve or do anything other than ride straight at her yelling for her to move that would probably have worked too.

Oh btw if anyone's interested it turns out the scum may be getting his sentence increased for lying in court ^^

 

[Vonhelmet]

Probably because it was an unverified claim made by a pathological liar.



According to the experts if his bike had brakes he would have been able to stop, this was influential in his conviction/sentencing. Having said that, if he had tried to swerve or do anything other than ride straight at her yelling for her to move that would probably have worked too.

Oh btw if anyone's interested it turns out the scum may be getting his sentence increased for lying in court ^^

You think he could have stopped from 18mph in 7m? Why aren’t cars using this wondrous braking technology that bikes have, when their stopping distance at a similar speed is near double this?

Experts can say what they like, but that doesn’t mean it’s true if it doesn’t stack up with the laws of physics. Bikes have greater stopping distances than cars, as their brakes are entirely reliant on the cyclists hands rather than being servo assisted, and due to their smaller tyre contact patches, so how could a cyclist travelling at a given speed stop more quickly than a car travelling at the same speed? Where does the extra braking force come from?

 

[ubersonic]

You think he could have stopped

As that's what the evidence proved in court yes.

For those who didn't follow the case, police actually tested an identical bike with/without brakes plus a normal road bike in the same conditions as the street where he killed her in order to establish stopping distances.

Why aren’t cars using this wondrous braking technology that bikes have, when their stopping distance at a similar speed is near double this?

Here you go: http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/add_ocr_gateway/forces/motionrev1.shtml

 

[hornetstinger]

If not stopped, slowed down so the impact might have been non fatal.
However if he was riding on the flats then it would take a second or two to move from flats to hoods/drops.

 

[Vonhelmet]

As that's what the evidence proved in court yes.

For those who didn't follow the case, police actually tested an identical bike with/without brakes plus a normal road bike in the same conditions as the street where he killed her in order to establish stopping distances.

As I recall the police “experiment” was based on stopping from a given point on the road i.e. there was no thinking distance to worry about. At 18mph your thinking distance is 5.4m (again based on the standard Highway Code type figures) which would leave less than two metres to stop. Nope.

I’ll say it again - if your expert testimony is coming out saying that a bicycle can stop quicker than a car travelling at the same speed, then you should be very suspicious, because you’re in danger of violating the laws of physics, never mind the pedal cycle construction and use regulations.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Here you go: http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/add_ocr_gateway/forces/motionrev1.shtml

Excellent attempt to patronise me, but I have A* physics GCSE, A at A level physics, distinction at special level and a 2:1 in a natural sciences degree with some physics modules. Come at me bro.

 

[koolpc]

Confirmation bias. You’ve seen plenty but your brain doesn’t log then because you’re preoccupied with the bad ones.

Wrong.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Wrong.

So where is your 99.9% figure coming from, if not the dark and murky depths of your butthole?

 

[adolf hamster]

Yea but tractors will usually pull over to let traffic pass, or are only going a very short distance. You can actually be fined for backing up excessive amounts of traffic.

Not always, theres plenty of tractor drivers are happy to have a mile long queue behind them, in fact i'd say there's a greater % of inconsiderate tractor driving than on bicycles.

 

[ubersonic]

Guys, I know in this type of thread it's common for the non-drivers to band together, the non-cyclists to band together and those of us who drive and ride to sit in the middle wondering what's wrong with the world, but this case isn't one where anybody should be supporting the cyclist.

The arrogant **** rode around on a bike he knew wasn't roadworthy, killed a pedestrian because he lacked the correct stopping distance (and didn't even attempt to stop/swerve just shouted at them). Then got up and kicked their body while yelling abuse before making up a story that she had been on the phone, then proceeded to spam the internet about how he was the real victim and it was all her fault, then proceeded to lie in court to make himself sound more competent and less responsible (and got caught perjuring himself).

A complete and total you know what of the first degree and a pure example of the type of cyclist that give the rest of us a bad name.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Guys, I know in this type of thread it's common for the non-drivers to band together, the non-cyclists to band together and those of us who drive and ride to sit in the middle wondering what's wrong with the world, but this case isn't one where anybody should be supporting the cyclist.

The arrogant **** rode around on a bike he knew wasn't roadworthy, killed a pedestrian because he lacked the correct stopping distance (and didn't even attempt to stop/swerve just shouted at them). Then got up and kicked their body while yelling abuse before making up a story that she had been on the phone, then proceeded to spam the internet about how he was the real victim and it was all her fault, then proceeded to lie in court to make himself sound more competent and less responsible (and got caught perjuring himself).

A complete and total you know what of the first degree and a pure example of the type of cyclist that give the rest of us a bad name.

He shouldn’t have been riding the bike with no brakes. No one is disputing that. What I am disputing is the ******** that she died because of the lack of those brakes. No bike could have stopped in that distance from that speed. Most car drivers would have failed too, except maybe Lewis Hamilton, who I imagine has superior reactions to most, but he’s not in London for tax reasons.

 

[Dis86]

He shouldn’t have been riding the bike with no brakes. No one is disputing that. What I am disputing is the ******** that she died because of the lack of those brakes. No bike could have stopped in that distance from that speed. Most car drivers would have failed too, except maybe Lewis Hamilton, who I imagine has superior reactions to most, but he’s not in London for tax reasons.

You're discounting that his speed would have been reduced from the moment he applied the brakes, this would have increased the chance of an impact being survivable whilst also increasing the chance she would have made it out of his path. That's if we ignore the evidence of the experts who state he could have stopped.

 

[ubersonic]

He shouldn’t have been riding the bike with no brakes. No one is disputing that. What I am disputing is the ******** that she died because of the lack of those brakes. No bike could have stopped in that distance from that speed. Most car drivers would have failed too, except maybe Lewis Hamilton, who I imagine has superior reactions to most, but he’s not in London for tax reasons.

IIRC the regular mountain bike did it in about 3.3m and the fixie with proper brakes in 4m, I'll double check that and edit post.

*EDIT*

This graphic shows it quite well:

 

[Vonhelmet]

IIRC the regular mountain bike did it in about 3.3m and the fixie with proper brakes in 4m, I'll double check that and edit post.

So they managed to stop before a car driver would even have finished thinking about it? Incredible.

No really, that is literally incredible.

Link me to this wondrous example of reaction times.

From the Guardian:

The 3 metre braking distance is frankly absurd.

Oh dear.

Or there's this from road.cc which obviously can be discounted as biased right away... The MET's video shows the cyclist stopping when they arrive at a cone in the road, which is ridiculous. You don't perform an emergency stop knowing where you need to start braking from. It's utter rubbish. That's why when you're doing your driving test the instructor bangs the dashboard to tell you when to stop, rather than telling you to stop when you pass this or that lamp post.

Is your graphic above from the Daily Wail by any chance?

 

[ubersonic]

So they managed to stop before a car driver would even have finished thinking about it? Incredible.

The distances don't include thinking because in court they were applied against the distance he had to stop in when he began reacting to her not thinking about reacting to her. Had his bike had a brake and he began braking at the same time he started reacting in the CCTV footage he would have been able to stop.

 

[hornetstinger]

IIRC the regular mountain bike did it in about 3.3m and the fixie with proper brakes in 4m, I'll double check that and edit post.

*EDIT*

This graphic shows it quite well:

I ride a Fixie. No freaking way would I stop within 12 meters just by back pedalling at 18mph, without using any rim braking. Gear dependant of course (I have 46/15 or 16 I think on the rear)

 

[Em3bbs]

So where is your 99.9% figure coming from, if not the dark and murky depths of your butthole?

You're always so angry on this forum about everything. I should have guess a UK cyclist.

 

[Vonhelmet]

You're always so angry on this forum about everything. I should have guess a UK cyclist.

There’s a lot to be angry about...

 

[ubersonic]

I ride a Fixie. No freaking way would I stop within 12 meters just by back pedalling at 18mph, without using any rim braking. Gear dependant of course (I have 46/15 or 16 I think on the rear)

That's exactly what the evidence is saying, the 12 meters is for 10mph, the point of it was (afaik) to demonstrate he had zero chance of stopping anytime soon at 18mph with no brakes..