Why Is it....

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That all the older games like System Shock 1&2 and Deus Ex are so much longer than the newer Games e.g Deus Ex 2 & Bioshock. I spent ages working my way through SS2 and Deus Ex. But I completed DE2 in a Day and Bioshock in 2. WHY can't they make the newer games just as long as the older ones????:confused: :mad:
 
Ok, I'll bite....

It seems to be what many people want. Looks over substance....I don't like it either, but what can you do when the masses are all for it? I've noticed many games are dumbed down to a ridiculous degree also. Nobody wants to think anymore, just be lead through the game on a leash...Games cost a fortune to make these days ($10mil+ is not uncommon). Therefore investors want a say in it. And if the masses want sexy graphics then that is what we get, usually at the expense of gameplay.

Not that I want every game to be mega taxing on the brain but jeez, these days everything seems geared to 8 yr olds. Even games with a mature rating, but the gameplay is decidedly immature and way too simplistic.

Anyway, rant over, from a cynical old gamer :D

Funnily enough though, I kinda liked Bioshock (even though it does suffer a bit from some of the things I mentioned), just because it dared to be a bit different. Not just another WW2 cookie cutter shooter or something.
 
I agree with Ozzie.

To be brutally honest, some of the spectrum games I used to play in 1983 actually had more game in them than modern games, which is remarkable considering that they had 48k or 128k of memory to work with back then, and now they have 1000's of times more than that.

Of course, back then, the graphics were worse, but they made up for that with fun playability and decent game sizes. These days its all about the fancy graphics. Back then you could buy a game brand new for £2.99 and it would last weeks, and occassionally months, today you buy a brand new game for 10 times that price, and if you're lucky it will last you til the end of the weekend.

Rant over, from another cynical old gamer :D
 
Seconding Ozzie and Tombstone's comments. I also think the console gaming market has played a big part in the influx of 'dumbed down' games.
 
Development time/cost is a lot higher than it used to be. Players also have a much higher expectation in terms of level design than they used to, I mean if you look at the games you cited (Deus Ex / System Shock 2) then some of the levels are very bland, basic textures and so forth by modern standards. Whereas now we expect diverse textures with lighting and bump mapping carefully applied etc.

Another point is that games tend to be much more 'streamlined' than they used to be. One of the reasons older games used to take ages to complete was that oftentimes you would be wandering around not entirely sure where you are going, with little to guide you (radar, hud icons, NPCs etc). Games like DE and SS2 had a lot of back-tracking. Furthermore in the old days storylines used to often get told by reading diaries, computer logs etc. They are relatively quick to produce, whereas the modern style of having an NPC explain everything to you requires a lot more development effort.

Unreal is a good example of the old style of FPS, it's an Epic game with in excess of 30 large levels, with a lot of aimless meandering and diary reading. I terms of game length it dwarfs moderns FPS.

Remember, shorter doesn't necessarily mean worse. Call of Duty is pretty much the only serious game I can think of that I've completed in less than a day (around 8hrs playtime), but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it immensely. It was just very polished and streamline, hi-octane all the way.
 
I dont mind back tracking in games, and having to work out where to go for myself. Makes you put a little thought into your game rather than just following the game around on rails.

I may be alone in this, but I vastly prefer to read and follow the storyline through in game diaries, logs etc, than have some npc spell it all out for me coz like readin wordz is 2 hard 4 me m8.

You're right that shorter doesnt necessarily mean worse, but give me a really good modern pretty looking game which takes 8 hours to finish, and an equally good but not so pretty looking 20 year old game but lasts for 8 weeks, and I know which one I would like to see more of.

These days I usually play MMOs and strategy games, because they seem to be the only titles around which last more than a week
 
Cost as mentioned.

Artwork/Audio in the old sprite days weren't as advanced. We were using crappy sprites and barely CD quality ingame audio. Computers/Consoles back then weren't as advanced and gamers at the time preferred long lasting games.

Fast forward to present 3D era, and we're looking at artwork/textures taking up masses of space, high quality audio+spoken dialogue equally taking up storage space and cost. These two components are why smaller development houses are being borg'd by the big guns e.g EA. It costs a ton to make a game with huge amounts of playability and adequate sales, when you can make a short game with spiffy visuals+audio and get in more sales.

Iirc I first noticed this happening in the industry when Max Payne 1 arrived, with its very short gameplay, but terrific visuals+audio.
 
I agree with all of what you are saying but my problem is that the developers who are taking old titles such as Deus Ex have to remember that when people like me pick up Deus Ex 2 they are expecting the same style of play and length of story as the older one with aspects like graphics and gameplay to be vastly improved and when they get it and find that it's a good few days/weeks shorter to complete than the first one it's disappointing. :(

edit: also these titles don't have as much freedom about the game they are a hell of a lot more linear.
 
Couple the gameplay length with the massive boxes with bible manuals and you're in heaven :) Some didn't like the big boxes and stuff but I thought they were great.
 
Interesting to think that a single texture is larger in memory size than an entire spectrum 48k game.
 
I dont mind back tracking in games, and having to work out where to go for myself. Makes you put a little thought into your game rather than just following the game around on rails.

I may be alone in this, but I vastly prefer to read and follow the storyline through in game diaries, logs etc, than have some npc spell it all out for me coz like readin wordz is 2 hard 4 me m8.

You're right that shorter doesnt necessarily mean worse, but give me a really good modern pretty looking game which takes 8 hours to finish, and an equally good but not so pretty looking 20 year old game but lasts for 8 weeks, and I know which one I would like to see more of.

These days I usually play MMOs and strategy games, because they seem to be the only titles around which last more than a week


but the very thing here is in the mmo's and strategy games there isn't "more" game there, its just repeated over and over and over. now i like mmo's but you do repetitive missions, it can be made fun. but in general the "stories" don't matter at all, you can read why someone wants 10 rabbit hides, but it doesn't matter, has no bearing on the game and most of the reasons behind wanting the hides are crap. story telling is actually fairly non existant in mmo's, there are basic, writen in 5 seconds reasons for collecting or killing whatever you need. but theres no pulling you in, scaring, intriguing you at all, no length, no sub plots, no character growth.

now, they could have had exactly the same game area's in bioshock, but quadrupled the amount of switches you had to hit, in certain orders, with repeated backtracking massively increasing the time spent to complete the game, but really adding nothing at all to the experience.

the problem is design/coding time to implement games now. as i've said in the physx threads, physics in games don't have to be complex or accurate to be good, the main game physics won't ever need "boosting" with extra power. if a wall is breakable it takes 10 times longer to design, programme, debug and fix than a plain piece of wall, infact it might be 100 times longer. a plain wall with simple characteristics is easy, give it some basic arguments, can it be passed through, no, is it solid, yes, can it be broken, no, etc. when it becomes breakable you suddenly have to design the original wall, how it looks broken in a dozen different ways, program how the bits fall, make the edge's look real, give the wall a health, determine how much power is needed to break it, a weight for broken pieces to add to the power of gun/nade/punch to determine how far bits will go, etc, etc, etc, etc. its massively more complex and simply takes a lot longer to code.

we're in the stage where every new thing in games takes exponentially longer to program/code and make. so one guy building a level over a year has turned not into 3 guys making a level over a year, but 10 guys making a level over 3 years.

but i can't play old games anymore. at first, you had space invaders, it was fun, and about as hard core as games got at that point. basic, fun, but we grow, we learn, we got bored of basic and i would never go back to basic long games over more complex games of now.
 
but i can't play old games anymore. at first, you had space invaders, it was fun, and about as hard core as games got at that point. basic, fun, but we grow, we learn, we got bored of basic and i would never go back to basic long games over more complex games of now.

I dissagree I'd rather go back and play a game that was more challenging and less linear over somthing that has s*** hot graphics and sounds plus the story lines had more to them and kept you thinking about what you had done and what you can do because of somthing you did or didn't do earlier this is what allows for a non linear game at the moment all games like the ones I discussed are suffering because they are precisely the opposite all your goals are set before you and you really don't have any choise about what you do. e.g Deus ex your given the option to stealthyly enter a backdoor or go in throgh the front all guns blazing or if the mission objective is not essential to the story you don't have to enter the building at all but in doing so you could make it harder for yourself to complete an objective essential to the story line it's this freedom of choise that was available for games that have an RPG element to them like Deus Ex and SS2 that I miss. :(
 
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