Why is STEAM used as the "Digital Distribution" scapegoat?

Steam is the biggest platform, so it's held up as the poster boy. Simple as.

However, regardless who's responsible, the fact is that prices on Steam (and other platforms) are a lot higher than they are in brick and mortar stores. The reason that Steam gets the flak for the pricing is that the average consumer is not aware of the behind the scenes negotiations and contracts that take place.

And I don't agree that the added cost makes up for the added value and convenience. It is still often quicker to install from a DVD than it is to download a few gigs worth of data, what with bandwidth caps and STM'ing. In addition, £10-15 is not a fair price for the convenience of not getting off your butt and going down to the store, or waiting a day for it to arrive in the mail.

Why should I have to pay more when I dont get a nice shiny box and manual, and when bandwidth and storage is so cheap? I don't even get the guarantee that if Steam or Inpulse were ever to cease, I'd be able to keep my games.

Don't get me wrong, I like digital distribution, and prefer to get a lot of my games from there. But until Steam prices are CHEAPER than in stores (Including taking into account promotions), I'll stick to the weekend deals.
 
Some good points there. I wouldn't expect Steam or Impulse to be the very cheapest but they should at least be comparable with mail order.

Stardock have said they would unlock Impulse games were anything to happen to them but I don't know what that's worth.
 
Meh, all my modern valve games are bought on steam. All my old ones were added too. When steam first came out it was a buggy pain. Moving from WON kinda sucked, but now it is well established its nothing short of awesome. Auto - updates, downloading and installing. If its too expensive, then don't buy it ... There are always good deals.
 
Strife212 said:
It makes no sense though :(

If you go to a high street store the publishers haven't set the prices in there... its much more likely that the publisher charges them a few pounds whenever a game is downloaded, and they can set whatever price they want...
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No, but the publishers sell the games to the store in bulk, and it's up to the High Street store to then decide how much profit they want to make (although obviously they try to keep it in line with other stores).

I dont know how distribution works on a Software distribution, whether the content is stored on the Steam server or Developer, how it arrives at the Steam server, how much bandwith it uses and how much that costs... but i suspect it doesn't work in the same way as Brick and Mortar in that Steam/Valve don't "buy" say, 100,000 downloads from the publisher... but probably instead Rent their servers and bandwith to the publisher instead, thus the publisher sets the price to pay Valve/Steam and then make profit.

Not sure.
 
For me, steam = convinience and siplicity.

Any price premiums on steam, if indeed they exist, I take as a "Makes my life easier tax".

My only gripe with steam is that the US get some games on their months before we do.
 
DampCat said:
....i suspect it doesn't work in the same way as Brick and Mortar in that Steam/Valve don't "buy" say, 100,000 downloads from the publisher... but probably instead Rent their servers and bandwith to the publisher instead, thus the publisher sets the price to pay Valve/Steam and then make profit.
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That is indeed how it works. Valve take a percentage from each sale, this percentage covers their overheads.

Obiously, just like a store, publishers can pay to have their product more "Prominently featured" on the STEAM homepage, just in the same way publishers PAY Game shops to put their items at the front of the shop when you walk in. Do people accuse the shops of ripping off publishers, of course not, its business.

The same people who think Valve set the prices probably also believe that the shops just randomly decide what products you see immediately walking in off the street or even see from the high street before walking in.

Shops make BIG MONEY from product placement in stores.

Some people can not help but compare it to the traditional method of "Buy in bulk, sell for profit" and think Valve works the same way.

In reality, that would be the most stupidiest thing in the world.

"Doug, weve only got 3 copies of Batman left on our servers, buy some more from Eidos, QUICK, go go go".
 
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You know, it's really bugging me the way you talk like everyone (who doesn't totally agree with you) is dumb and doesn't understand simple retail.

Gimpymoo said:
publishers PAY Game shops to put their items at the front of the shop when you walk in
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Actually they don't, unless it works differently from supermarkets. Reps normally come round with their ads and pricepoints and beg the shop managers to put them up,
money doesn't change hands for this, although maybe a few EA pens or some such changes hands. The money comes from sales of the prominently advertised product,
and the reps company pay for a certain amount of shelf space to sell their product from.

As I say, this is how it works in supermarkets and I can't see any other high street retailers working any differently. It's basics.

Anyway, the thing is you said that Valve does exactly the same, now I don't have a full grasp on the digital distribution retail model
so it may be true that publishers pay for advertising space on Steam, it's certainly true on other websites. Which means that if Valve do set prices (no real evidence from you yet that thay don't)
Then they're cashing in double time!

Gimpymoo said:
Some people can not help but compare it to the traditional method of "Buy in bulk, sell for profit" and think Valve works the same way.

In reality, that would be the most stupidiest thing in the world.

"Doug, weve only got 3 copies of Batman left on our servers, buy some more from Eidos, QUICK, go go go".
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I don't really understand this, maybe I am thick as two short planks after all :(
Seems to me that if Doug has only got 3 copies left on the server then he should have bought more to supply the demand he would have experienced after the first 'trial' sales?
TBH sack Doug and hire someone who knows what they're doing?

I've bought stuff from Valve on their awesome weekend sales and I do like the Steam system but I won't be replacing my whole PC collection from them until
they compete with the high street and that offshore place.
 
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I saw this post from a Stardock guy on Impulse.

'Over the last few months as more games have been launched on Impulse and as more users have joined the community here, we've seen a steady increase in the number of confused/angry threads regarding territorial sales restrictions and regional pricing set for some titles.

Instead of continuing to address each thread as it pops up, this thread is being created to consolidate the discussion.

Publishers and developers, when signing on with Impulse, specify what regions of the world their titles may be sold in. We always push for world-wide rights, but due to a variety of factors, this isn't always possible.

Publishers and developers also set regional pricing based on currencies and areas of the globe. Again, we always ask for non-regional pricing, but once more there are limitations on the publishers which often prevent this.

Impulse does not determine regional availability or price. This is something that is decided by the publisher/developer signing their titles on with Impulse. We are continually pushing for expanded sales regions with our partners, but those take time.'

So it seems the publishers are influencing price and availability of digital downloads.
 
His example is suggesting that it's impossible to only have "3 copies left" on the server, as it's a digital copy, and thus unlimited in stock.

Doubtlessly there are a set number of CD keys available, but exponentially more than in a Brick n Mortar because Retail Stores are limited by physical space with 1 key in each box. There's only 'X' space in that shop, so you have to divide it between games and are thus limited in what you can stock. With digital distribution, it's likely that the keys are assigned on a "per download" basis, suggesting that you can potentially have hundreds of thousands "more" of a product, as you will only need 1 copy on the server, and it is distibuted thousands of times with a different key attached for each customer.

Given this, it's unlikely that the retailer (steam) will pay the publisher for those thousands of CD keys (as there is only 1 copy of the game/distributable), and instead will rent the bandwith involved in the distribution to the publisher, who is then free to control the prices and promotion of that game or product.

Basically, it's like a car boot sale. You pay a fiver, you set up a stall and sell your stuff. Your £5 goes towards paying the guys in the carpark to direct customers toward the stalls and the rest to the guy who owns the land.

Edit: i'm not stating this as fact, but my limited knowledge of business would suggest this to be the most efficient way to do it. I cant imagine why it would be done differently.
 
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Gimpymoo said:
Some people can not help but compare it to the traditional method of "Buy in bulk, sell for profit" and think Valve works the same way.

In reality, that would be the most stupidiest thing in the world.

"Doug, weve only got 3 copies of Batman left on our servers, buy some more from Eidos, QUICK, go go go".
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Yes that is silly but it's possible for digital downloads to operate in a similar way to retail.

'Doug, we've only got 3 left of those 50,000 licenses for Batman that we bought up front...buy some more from Eidos, QUICK, go go go'.

If only.
 
But publishers do the same in the real world of retail stores, they release games to only certain regions, and they choose different RRP's for different parts of the world.

THey choose a price in $, a price in £, a price in euro's and a price in yen, they DON'T pick a single price and just use exchange rates to ensure the same price everywhere else, thats the same deal with every item sold in the world.

I would assume because tax is calculated differently for sales in different places, not to mention money being worth more/less in different regions you can't and won't ever have the same pricing.

But thats recommended prices, thats up to them, thats got smeg all to do with what price the store then sells at.
 
ic1male said:
I love the Steam sales. So much so that I snap things up willy nilly thinking "one day I might have a computer that can run this" :D

Right now, it's 50% off Civ IV. Never liked the demo as it was too long winded but I'm still hovering over that Buy Now button...
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I started playing Civ2 again about a week ago and had been hovering over the Civ 4 pack thinking 'STEAM DEAL PLEASE!' Can't believe I missed this, nice one thanks!
 
drunkenmaster said:
But thats recommended prices, thats up to them, thats got smeg all to do with what price the store then sells at.
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Indeed. That is the point. The publisher ultimately has more control over what price the item is sold at on a platform so they sell it for what they think the game is worth.

They can recommend an RRP but beyond that, if store/etailers want to undercut each other, that is their choice.

In this country, it would be illegal if they made the retailers contractually obligated to sell an item at a certain price?
 
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According to Wikipedia (yeah i know, sorry), publishers push for higher prices on Digital Distribution platforms because RETAILERS threaten to take less stock if they're undercut by DD.

Go figure.
 
It is true.

Although, things are changing, with the more niche games, like NBA 2K10 for example which does not shift large amounts at retail anyway, the publishers can tell the retailers to **** themselves.

2K pitched the game at £12.99 on initial release on STEAM which is CRAZY, although, I dont believe they sell it to the retailers for much more/less than that so they make the same money, customer is happy, the only person loosing out is fat, greedy shareholders at the game shops.
 
Gimpymoo said:
, the only person loosing out is fat, greedy shareholders at the game shops.
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You are aware that anyone can be a share holder? there's probably thousands of ordinary people with shares in those shops through unit trusts/MM's etc.
 
Tefal said:
You are aware that anyone can be a share holder? there's probably thousands of ordinary people with shares in those shops through unit trusts/MM's etc.
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I am aware of that, yes.

It does not mean I have to agree with the practices of these companies, who have single handedly destroyed independed game retailing in this country or dislike the fact they have held publishers to ransom for too long.

Point taken though, it is likely not the shareholders who make these decisions although the decisions are made to benefit them.
 
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Simi said:
Actually they don't, unless it works differently from supermarkets. Reps normally come round with their ads and pricepoints and beg the shop managers to put them up,
money doesn't change hands for this, although maybe a few EA pens or some such changes hands. The money comes from sales of the prominently advertised product,
and the reps company pay for a certain amount of shelf space to sell their product from.

As I say, this is how it works in supermarkets and I can't see any other high street retailers working any differently. It's basics.
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I worked at purple Game shop for more years than I care to admit. The entire layout of the store and which games you put the hard sell on, all comes from head office, and is uniform across the board, and it changes week to week. Some major changes, sometimes very little, some games get far longer and more prominent spots. All straight from the top.

God forbid you got a visit from regional management and you had decided to rearrange the store because a nice man with pens begged you.

EDIT. The last sentence wasn't supposed to sound snide. It's more about how absolutely amazed they would be, and how you would get roasted for being some sort of cross between a loose cannon maverick and total incompetent.
 
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