Why isn't there more choice of QWERTY smart phones

That is part of the Market and choice, why separate it?

The demand simply isn't there, so there is far less choice. Again simple supply and demand. You make most of your money by providing what the masses want. You then have a few models to try and get what money you can from fringe groups.
 
I hope there will always be a place for qwerty phones, I'm definitely going BB as soon as I can, preferably a 9900 (or whatever is around in another 12 months).

I just find typing on a touchscreen a pain, you can't do it by feel and I keep making mistakes. If I really concentrate then I can do it okay, but I really shouldn't have to..

Hopefully some new technology will come out that will solve this problem, maybe a screen that can turn bumpy for buttons or something. That would be awesome.
 
Consumers can only buy what is available and what they are aware of.

Most market trends aren't dictated by the consumer, but the marketing agencies whipping people up into a frenzy.

Market research is to blame too. What people say they want in market research and what they go out and ultimately buy, are usually two completely different things.

I'm sure if a nice looking qwerty phone came out, with similar featureset to that of the most popular phones at the moment and a marketing budget as large as Apple's, then I'm sure it would do well.
 
manveruppd said:
Well every other phone manufacturer makes several different form factors to please several different kinds of customers, but not Apple. They released one form factor and basically told everyone else to suck it. It's a really arrogant attitude. They argue that touchscreens are as good as hardware keyboards now, but of course the main reason they did it is because of the savings associated with having a single SKU and because of the marketing advantages that having a single form factor (especially one that looked like it teleported in from the future) would give them.
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Ok, so don't don't buy an iPhone. They don't tell you what you want, you tell them by voting with your wallet. If the hardware keyboard were such a big selling point the Desire Z would have outsold many of its competitors...

manveruppd said:
You could argue that the market proved Apple right, and the amount of people who buy their phones prove that it IS good enough for a substantial amount of people, but I would argue that a significant proportion of their customers buy them not with considerations of usability in mind but more because of fashion/style concerns. (Not saying it's not a good phone, just saying that a lot of its users don't care that it's a good phone!)
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If people are buying them based on style concerns then clearly the size/slimness of the phone is a bigger selling point than having a hardware keyboard. Ergo, there's little demand for them.

Also, again it isn't just Apple that fail to offer high end phones with HW keyboards which seems to be the issue.

manveruppd said:
As evidence for that statement I posit the persistent prevalence of BlackBerries among teens and young adults despite the fact that:
a. even though that age group should be the most "fashion conscious" customers, they're still buying BBs despite the fact that they're business phones, so while people in their 30s might sorta like their understated designs, they have absolutely no "cool factor" whatsoever, and
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They buy them because it's a fad to own one and they seem to like using BBM, I asked my niece why she has one and her reply was 'I dunno, all my friends have them' :p

manveruppd said:
b. they're more expensive to own since most providers charge extra for BBS services like BBM.
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Well they aren't, BBM is about £5 a month and the phones start at around £100. They're cheap to buy and pretty cheap to use.

manveruppd said:
So, no, touchscreens aren't good enough for most people to type on. Some people are prepared to put up with them because they either don't do a lot of typing or because style is more important to them than usability. But the reason I made a dig at Apple is because they were the first to say "we'll go after only one segment of the consumer market, and force everyone else to conform to it through fashion and peer pressure". And that's not on. I want a choice, and it pains me that most other companies are heading in the same direction, sticking to fewer and fewer form factors. Even HTC, who used to be the kings of hardware keyboards, haven't released a QWERTY phone in about a year now.
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They aren't forcing anyone to do anything, I don't quite understand this mentality. Ford aren't forcing everybody to buy cars by not releasing a motorbike.
 
So it's Apple's fault that people don't care about a hardware keyboard and therefore the companies don't make many of them?

If people thought touch screen keyboards were bad then surely there would be a demand for hardware keyboards? There is little demand for it, therefore it's a waste of time and money to cater to a tiny segment of the market that, when all said and done, will settle for a touch screen keyboard without too many complaints (as many of you are going to).
 
We all know the UK is one of the last bastions for Blackberry. If they didn't have such a strangle hold on the qwerty market we'd see all the hardware keyboard Android variants here.
 
Robbo said:
So it's Apple's fault that people don't care about a hardware keyboard and therefore the companies don't make many of them?

If people thought touch screen keyboards were bad then surely there would be a demand for hardware keyboards? There is little demand for it, therefore it's a waste of time and money to cater to a tiny segment of the market that, when all said and done, will settle for a touch screen keyboard without too many complaints (as many of you are going to).
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Well, in a way, yes. They led the market in that direction. Albeit a fairly willing market, as on the face of it touchscreens are very 'ooh shiny'.

I fell for it myself, but am looking to go qwerty as soon as I can as I have realised that I don't actually like touchscreen as a primary input method. I think it's possible that a lot of other people have realised this and will follow suit, at least I hope so as I want BB to prosper and make me nice phones!

I realise lots of people like touchscreen, especially casual users, but for me and plenty of other people, buttons are simply better. I don't think it's a 'tiny segment' of the market, I think it's a fairly reasonable one (didn't they make up 28.2% of the market in 2010?).
 
Robbo said:
If people thought touch screen keyboards were bad then surely there would be a demand for hardware keyboards? There is little demand for it, therefore it's a waste of time and money to cater to a tiny segment of the market that, when all said and done, will settle for a touch screen keyboard without too many complaints (as many of you are going to).
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This. It's not that people don't have an opinion (good or bad) on touchscreen keyboards. They just don't care when they have a nice shiny screen to mess around on the internet with or play Angry Birds. Blackberry users are generally high-volume communicators that value being able to do that more than anything.

But

Apple care about 3 things:

1) Profit
2) Profit
3) MINDshare

Essentially the iPhone dominates the smartphone market in mindshare. But the silent majority (Android has twice as much UK marketshare than Apple) either don't like Apple or don't want to pay so much. Android is just a cheap alternative to the iPhone/iOS that allows people to join the current smartphone bandwagon. Nothing more.

WP7 is at least a genuinely different option to iOS and not a clone.
 
AcidHell2 said:
You might do work on it, but you are a minority.
Even if there was a proper keyboard, most people do not and would not use their phone for heavy typing. Text message, Facebook and twitter are short email is the main use for everyday people.

Companies will always Market for the masses and once you full outside that there is still options but they'll be limited.
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Actually, id say that Android + QWERTY is increasingly becoming an option for Enterprise use, now that many large multinational companies (like my own) have now ok'd the devices for use with company email. As a result, we are seeing a big increases in Android devices with QWERTYs being ordered (mainly HTC and SE as those have the most options at the moment), because people want a device with the flexibility of an iPhone, with the typing functionality (or as close as you can get without having one) of a Blackberry. Most hardware QWERTYs like those found on the Desire Z and SE's are certainly better for rattling out emails than pure touch-based phones like the iPhone and Samsung Galaxy S II, though those aren't "that" bad, all things considered. I certainly wouldnt want a pure touch-based phone for business use if I was emailing regularly though.

Im waiting for Samsung to release something special in the next few months that combines good, SGS-esque power with a decent QWERTY, and then ill be in corporate phone heaven. :)
 
Only reason why I didn't go for an android phone is because the chacha loses half the screen to a keyboard and the DZ has what's got to be the weirdest way of folding out a keyboard ever thought of on a phone, the 7Pro is only just slightly better but if they just made a sensible hinge/slide instead of trying to be clever they might sell more.
 
I think there is a difference between "market demand" as a description of what people want to buy, and "market demand" as determined by industry. I don't agree with the idea that marketing people can dictate what people buy either, that's giving them altogether far more credit than I'm comfortable with. Distribution of market demand is not really a topic that can be described in absolute terms.

I do however wholeheartedly believe that touchscreen phones are cheaper to make and maintain. Designing from a proven concept is also a low risk venture relative to producing something novel. Apple struck out optimistically (and at considerable risk) with the iPhone, and I agree that much of the market has followed once the design looked successful.

RIM seems to be falling into financial difficulty in recent years, I'm not certain why. It seems plausible that touch screen smartphones have taken much of their market share.

None of this solves my problem though, which is that I really don't like ssh + touch screens. I'd quite like to replace my netbook with a phone, and that isn't viable without a keyboard.
 
If someone could design a phone with a touchscreen as good as the iPhones with Android and had a qwerty keyboard that slid out and still managed to stay relatively thin with over 1GHz processor. I would be in heaven.
 
There should be more hardware keyboard smartphones on the market. Either that or put loads of money into developing a touchscreen with actual decent tactile feedback. I wasn't too bothered by the loss of screen space when typing on my Desire but what really sucked was the rubbish tactile display. I made so many more mistakes and could not type as fast or without looking at the keys so much as when I use a HW keyboard.

Its one or the other because touchscreen keyboards as they stand are pretty poor.
 
Ok, after a few weeks of using my HTC Sensation, I can catagorically say that....

A hardware keyboard is an absolute must for me. The mechanics of sharing my screen with a keyboard and the lack of a dpad or arrow keys just bugs the hell out of me. It's a shame, because actually typing on the landscape touch screen keyboard is a breeze, and is much nicer and quicker for me than the hardware keyboard on my old Milestone.
 
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