Why would the BBC do this?

mmj_uk said:
They have a documentary on the KKK on tonight, yeah the BBC definitely aren't trying to stoke racial tensions or anything....
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1 - How would airing a documentary on the KKK stoke tensions exactly?
2 - What on earth would the BBC gain by doing so? Do you really think that's in their interest?
3 - TV programming frequently (if not all the time) follows major cinema releases. BlackkKlansman was just released. Having seen it, it brings to mind a lot of questions about the KKK. Thus, there will be a lot of people interested in following up that movie with such a documentary. It's clever (and basic) programming to get good audience figures.
4 - I've looked and can't find it. When is it on and what is it called? :confused:
 
angel102 said:
they literally wore swastikas and waved confederate flags at the same time even without the attacks with weapons and the murder by running down. They were not good people at all, on any level.
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I don't disagree people did that, but the majority of people didn't do that. I watched a documentary and there were loads of people angry that their protest against the statue being taken down was essentially hijacked by white supremacists. There was also violent people on the other side who wanted the statue down, the likes of Antifa.
 
Roar87 said:
there were loads of people angry that their protest against the statue being taken down was essentially hijacked by white supremacists
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Pssst. If you want to keep up a statue of a confederate soldier, you are racist... Not to mention the march's organiser's stated goal is unifying the American white nationalist movement. Drrr.
 
Roar87 said:
There was definitely good and bad people on both sides of those Charlotteville protests. On one side you had a lot of traditional Conservatives there to legitimately protest the taking down of a statue, there was also a minority there who were basically racist and who were happy for the situation to turn violent
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a minority you say ? sure...

 
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Roar87 said:
I don't disagree people did that, but the majority of people didn't do that. I watched a documentary and there were loads of people angry that their protest against the statue being taken down was essentially hijacked by white supremacists. There was also violent people on the other side who wanted the statue down, the likes of Antifa.
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sorry but no, it was not a minority. It was almost entirely White Supremacists wearing Nazi memorabilia waving confederate flags and tiki torches that even called themselves a Unite The Right rally led by Richard Spencer, a self confessed Neo-Nazi, again that is self confessed, not what I or others have called him. There's plenty video that the counter protestors were doing nothing wrong right up to the second the car slammed into that crowd killing Heather Heyer and injuring many others..

They are not good people under any definition of the term.
 
angel102 said:
they literally wore swastikas and waved confederate flags at the same time even without the attacks with weapons and the murder by running down. They were not good people at all, on any level.
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Confederate flags? Did someone mention confederate flags? Now, these new neighbours of mine..... ;)
 
AHarvey said:
Or you respect the history of the area even if it's rather dark in places.
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I'll go down the Nazi-comparison rabbit hole, but that's honestly a bit like saying you should leave statues of Hermann Göring up in Gemany because, ya know, history 'n stuff.

The American Civil War was 100% about slavery. The southern slave States had threatened secession for years, threatened it if Lincoln was elected (because of his opposition to slavery) and then went and did it. I'm no expert on the civil war by any means, but most academics agree that slavery was the primary cause of the Civil War. You can even read the Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union which kickstarted the secession of the 11 slave-States and led to the War. As the link states 'The declaration stated the primary reasoning behind South Carolina's declaring of secession from the U.S., which was described as "increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery".'

Pretending the Confederacy wasn't simply about upholding slavery is historical revisionism at it's worst.

EDIT: If you google 'historical revisionism', you even get linked through to a page on Confederate revisionism, funny that...
 
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that history isn't changed by a statue staying or being removed. Local history is important to the people of the area, as for your point, how do you feel about the Auschwitz concentration camps still remaining and being open to tourism?

At least if it remains, it's a constant visual reminder of the worst of the human race and a reminder to be a better person. A statue doesn't have to a celebration of a person, like Auschwitz it can be of historical interest and a tale of morality.
 
AHarvey said:
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that history isn't changed by a statue staying or being removed. Local history is important to the people of the area, as for your point, how do you feel about the Auschwitz concentration camps still remaining and being open to tourism?

At least if it remains, it's a constant visual reminder of the worst of the human race and a reminder to be a better person. A statue doesn't have to a celebration of a person, like Auschwitz it can be of historical interest and a tale of morality.
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There's a world of difference between leaving auschwitz there as a constant visible reminder of the horrors of war and man's inhumanity to man just like with the piles of skulls in cambodia and a general being celebrated with a statue by the unreformed losing side of a historical conflict.

If they changed the statues or put signs around them like "this person supported slavery and racism and we leave this as a warning" then that would be fine but that's clearly not what people were protesting or supporting.
 
Yeah, the Auschwitz comparison is weak I'm afraid. I'm sure it needed to be left originally to support evidence of war crimes/holocaust etc. and given the ludicrous amount of alt-right holocaust-deniers kicking around even now -- it's probably useful to leave it there. It also, as said, serves as an education tool. On the other hand, a statue of some bloke on the wrong side of history? Um, no.

I'd love to know when/how these Confederate statues were installed.
 
If you're local do you need sign's around to know who it was and what he did? For tourists yes, but then, maybe a plaque about him is enough. There's certainly a lot online about it that a quick google will reveal.

You say Auschwitz is a weak comparison, and I'm not really comparing the two, just pointing out that leaving something as a historical reminder isn't always a negative thing.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, personally what happened with the protests and the following carnage again, shows just how low humankind can sink. I'm just pointing out that aside from the neo-nazi idiots, there may be other reasons a select few would want to keep a local historical monument :)

Scam said:
I'd love to know when/how these Confederate statues were installed.
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Look, historical interest in a Confederate statue... :D lol

Wiki page looks interesting on the subject, nice graph on there showing a timeline. Looks like not all the monuments were removed, but some have simply been renamed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Confederate_monuments_and_memorials
 
For the record, I'm not in favour of removing Confederate statues. History should be remembered, not erased. However, if permission to remove a statue is granted by the sculptor, sponsor, or family member of the person represented, that's a different story.

Scam said:
I'd love to know when/how these Confederate statues were installed.
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blog_confederate_monuments4.gif


(Note that the Civil War ended in 1865).

See also this NPR article: 'Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'.'
 
Evangelion said:
For the record, I'm not in favour of removing Confederate statues. History should be remembered, not erased. However, if permission to remove a statue is granted by the sculptor, sponsor, or family member of the person represented, that's a different story.
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That's nonsense.. so basically you could only remove the statue of someone with now abhorrent views if we can get permission from the people who don't want to remove it and are probably dead?

the fact is this was put up pretty much in protest to integration and to prove the south didn't agree with the abolitionists.

Put it in a museum to our own stupidity and evil fine.. leave it up in a park for lunatics to congregate around? not fine.

Simple.
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
I agree, they're not and have no need to. POTUS is doing a damn fine job without needing anyone else's help. Good people on both sides, you know.
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Members of which American political party formed the original KKK?

Which 2016 Presidential Candidate received $20 million from the KKK's Californian chapter?
 
matt100 said:
That's nonsense.. so basically you could only remove the statue of someone with now abhorrent views if we can get permission from the people who don't want to remove it and are probably dead?

the fact is this was put up pretty much in protest to integration and to prove the south didn't agree with the abolitionists.

Put it in a museum to our own stupidity and evil fine.. leave it up in a park for lunatics to congregate around? not fine.

Simple.
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I mean you can always just take one for the team and remove them yourselves, it's a simple rope and full pedal operation. Or if you just want to make a point, get a sledgehammer and remove the head.

Don't even need to be from said state either.
 
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