Will any high end games meaningfully benefit from more than 8 cores anytime in the near future?

[Wolverine2349]

games are still generally fine on 6 cores though so to get from that to 12 cores will take many years.

A modern 6 core should be good for 3 years with an 8 core good for 5, after that the single core speed will be so far behind especially with a newer GPU released 2-3 generations from now that even the extra cores of a 12 core won't really help much.

Is that including or excluding HT/SMT. Like is 6 core 12 threads important or is just 6 cores 6 threads important? Likewise for 8 cores and 16 threads opposed to 8 cores and 9 threads?

 

[Wolverine2349]

Also can someone explain why it is that hyper threading 4 core Intel Core i7 6700K and 7700K are somewhat ok still in many games last couple of years where as 4 core 4 thread 6600K and 7600K are much worse.

Does hyper threading and ST in genera make that much of a difference for games that started using more threads? Or was it the increased L3 cache that pulled them over the edge.

Cause non hyper threading 6 core CPUs were a little better than 4 core hyper threading i7 and non hyper threading 8 cores of course blow out 4 cores 8 threads. But yet the cutoff seems to be 4 cores 8 threads for any somewhat respectability where as 4 cores 4 threads have severe stuttering and almost unplayable or not playable at all in some of today's games??

Does the same hold true in the future for 8 core CPUs where 9900K will age much better than 9700K and such?? Or was that an anomaly with the 4 core 4 thread and 4 core 8 thread CPU situation??

 

[mrk]

6700K isn't really ok in the latest games though. I know because I had one which was OCd to 4.4GHz before I migrated the build to this 12700KF system. The 1% lows especially saw a massive uplift in that I could maintain a minimum of 60fps in games like Cyberpunk at 3440x1440 - Granted with RTX off as I had a 2070 Super at the time before getting the 3080 Ti.

You can't compare that gen 4 core to this gen 8 core because the fundamental application and architecture is generations ahead. Today's arch will likely far outlast the 6700k gen's 4 cores just because they're very good and efficient to boot.

 

[Wolverine2349]

6700K isn't really ok in the latest games though. I know because I had one which was OCd to 4.4GHz before I migrated the build to this 12700KF system. The 1% lows especially saw a massive uplift in that I could maintain a minimum of 60fps in games like Cyberpunk at 3440x1440 - Granted with RTX off as I had a 2070 Super at the time before getting the 3080 Ti.

You can't compare that gen 4 core to this gen 8 core because the fundamental application and architecture is generations ahead. Today's arch will likely far outlast the 6700k gen's 4 cores just because they're very good and efficient to boot.

I agree it is not ok in latest games. Just pointing out that it can kind of do it but with poor performance where as it seems the 4 core 4 thread parts have no chance. Maybe it is just extra L3 cache. Cause even the quad core 12100 is kind of ok in many games today.

And yeah in theory it would seem todays arch being so much better would outlast then. Though at the same time given the competition now between Intel and AMD, could that also be not true as things may advance faster.

Where as when Intel was on top, they kept us at quad cores on mainstream with 15-20% IPC improvements from Ivy Bridge through Skylake before stalling then making their 14nm tech able to do 8 core chips even on LGA 1151 with Skylake derivatives.

Though its hard to see core counts beyond 12 or 16 if even that for games. Not sure where progress is going to take us next. Like how much better can IPC and clock speeds really get using Silicon??

 

[mrk]

True, I guess only time will tell. All I can say is that these 12th gen chips are pretty awesome at basically everything.

 

[Wolverine2349]

How would you say 6700K is compared to quad core Coffee Lake CPUs?

Is Coffee Lake really just a Skylake with 6 and 8 cores and same with Comet Lake or were there any IPC improvements even if minimal?

 

[mrk]

I looked into various upgrade paths to get a noticeable boost in performance for games/apps over the years from the 6700K and could not see any sizeable gains that made the jump from the OCd 6700K to a later gen that wasn't a 10th gen really.

 

[alec]

were there any IPC improvements even if minimal

slightly better memory controller is the only imporvement from 6700K I can think of. Didn't affect IPC directly, but allowed use of faster memory sticks.
And as 4-core comet lake would have less cache than 6700K, could even lose some IPC.

 

[g67575]

I think 8 cores (same as 'new' consoles) is generally enough for now, 12 cores if building a new PC.

With Intel, I'm not convinced, but E-Cores generally help performance a little bit.

I'm CPU limited by single core speed now, in games like Watchdogs: Legion, probably other recent Ubisoft titles. too So, a high end 8 core is fairly optimal for games (Anything more recent than Comet Lake and 11th gen).

Also CPU limited in Total War:WH3 on the campaign map benchmark, but probably not an issue during gameplay.

 

[Bencher]

I am thinking of going with a Ryzen 9 5900X simply because it has 12 cores. Unfortunately Intel is stuck at 8 good cores and I am not fond of the hybrid arch.

Though Intel Golden Cove are the best P cores there are. Though how much better really are they than Zen 3 cores.

Cause I could purchase a 12900K or 12700K and just use it as an 8 core part by disabling the e-cores and run WIN10 normally without worry over games using the e cores or other scheduling issues and slower ringbus.

Also my plan would be to shut off HT/SMT if I have more than 8 cores. With 8 cores a tossup and less leave it on.

Does HT/SMT help much for gaming if at all or even hurt it if core count is high??

Like how would 8 cores 16 threads be compared to 12 cores and 12 threads for gaming now and into the future with video card upgrades down the road.

Is more physical real cores going to matter anytime soon?

I intend to continue gaming at 1440p maxing out all settings in games with an RTX 3090 Ti.

Games don't care about the number of cores. They need processing power.

There are some games out there that do scale beyond 8 cores, but none of them (and none in the future) will perform better on a 12c zen 3 than on an 8p core alderlake. So if you care about gaming, get alderlake, it will always be faster than the zen 3.

 

[mrk]

Single core performance on 12th gen Intel is supreme, I mean just look at where the tables sit for the CPU-Z bench: https://valid.x86.fr/bench/1

 

[g67575]

Single core performance on 12th gen Intel is supreme, I mean just look at where the tables sit for the CPU-Z bench: https://valid.x86.fr/bench/1

Yeah, a shame that it looks like Intel is basically recycling the Golden Cove cores used in the 12th gen, for the 13th generation.

Like you say, they have the advantage still, Zen 4 I think will catch up with Alder Lake in single threaded performance.

 

[Bencher]

Single core performance on 12th gen Intel is supreme, I mean just look at where the tables sit for the CPU-Z bench: https://valid.x86.fr/bench/1

It makes it even more wow considering most 12900ks can boost to 5.5+ on ST. Mine can do 5.7 with a score of 927 or something, and the difference at that point is just insane.

 

[Wolverine2349]

Games don't care about the number of cores. They need processing power.

There are some games out there that do scale beyond 8 cores, but none of them (and none in the future) will perform better on a 12c zen 3 than on an 8p core alderlake. So if you care about gaming, get alderlake, it will always be faster than the zen 3.

How would some games scale beyond 8 cores, but not perform better with them? Is them scaling beyond 8 more redundancy than anything?? Or is there any performance benefit??

How much better is Alder Lake IPC at same clock compared to Zen 3. Some have said it is only 11% higher. Some have said 20%. Some say they trade blows and it is even less.

 

[Bencher]

How would some games scale beyond 8 cores, but not perform better with them? Is them scaling beyond 8 more redundancy than anything?? Or is there any performance benefit??

They would perform better if you compare 8 zen cores with 12 zen cores. But if you compare zen with alderlake, the dynamic changes.

 

[Bencher]

How much better is Alder Lake IPC at same clock compared to Zen 3. Some have said it is only 11% higher. Some have said 20%. Some say they trade blows and it is even less.

It depends on the workload and testing IPC is meaningless.

 

[Wolverine2349]

They would perform better if you compare 8 zen cores with 12 zen cores. But if you compare zen with alderlake, the dynamic changes.

Yes true which is a shame there are not more than 8 Alder Lake P cores.

Though do they really scale that well beyond 8 cores or is it more just using extra cores because it can spread load even though it has 0 need to?? Like does the game engine see the extra cores and decide to split load and use less CPU cycles on more cores than more on less??

 

[Joxeon]

I think 8 cores (same as 'new' consoles) is generally enough for now, 12 cores if building a new PC.

With Intel, I'm not convinced, but E-Cores generally help performance a little bit.

I'm CPU limited by single core speed now, in games like Watchdogs: Legion, probably other recent Ubisoft titles. too So, a high end 8 core is fairly optimal for games (Anything more recent than Comet Lake and 11th gen).

Also CPU limited in Total War:WH3 on the campaign map benchmark, but probably not an issue during gameplay.

You are sc limited in WDL with a 10700k + 3080 at 4K or 1080p?

I did some 1440p benchmarks of that game with a 3080 and R5 3600 just before I upgraded to a 5800X and found no difference in averages or 1% lows.

 

[arknor]

How would some games scale beyond 8 cores, but not perform better with them? Is them scaling beyond 8 more redundancy than anything?? Or is there any performance benefit??

there's always going to be a main thread for whatever game that defines how fast the game can run.

6 fast cores probably beats 8 slower cores.

not every core is maxed out to begin with only one or two will be 100%, the other cores will be assigned to less intensive parts of the game.

it's not like rendering a video where you can equally distribute the load

 

[Troezar]

Looking at the 5800X3D I would say cache is going to be a much bigger factor in the next few years than P or E cores. Relatively easy win and doesn't rely on scheduling. Even Intel will perform better with more cache.