Wills!

[SpellowHouse]

My brother died a few years back.

Thing is, I know he left what he described as a complex will. However, mistake one, no one but his wife knows where it is.

Not that I am going to get anything, but we (the extended family) know that he left his kids a very substantial amount of money. My brother was a real dot the i, cross the t sort of person. He would not make a will if it could not be executed, so we don't think he would leave anything "joint" to the kids. So the decision is not hers, and the will should be followed.

We don't know what is joint owned and what isn't, but suspect there is at least one house that was his sole property (that she is now receiving income from because it feeds in to a joint account).

Thing is that his wife has done nothing but spend money on holidays since he died (she has been on ten holidays in two years!). She hasn't executed the will. She doesn't have probate. The kids have received nothing. There's a lot of concern in the family that she has no intention of ever executing the will.

One thing she did say was that there is a considerable sum in shares that she can not access, which we know would be covered in the will.

But where does this leave the kids? What can they do?

 

[Rroff]

One thing she did say was that there is a considerable sum in shares that she can not access, which we know would be covered in the will.

With probate and a copy of the death certificate that isn't an issue and should be sorted sooner rather than later or things can get complicated.

 

[SpellowHouse]

With probate and a copy of the death certificate that isn't an issue and should be sorted sooner rather than later or things can get complicated.

We know. The problem is, she doesn't care. Nor do we, really, only that kids are not getting the money left to them. They are just at the age where they could do with it most.
We aren't sure what she's up to at all. She is breaking the law, no doubt about that, but we are uncertain whether she is unaware of that or just intends to never apply for probate because it's in her interest not to.
Either way, it leaves the kids in a very difficult situation (bear in mind they are not her children).
We also know that my brother would be beside himself with anger about this. He left a will for a reason, and at the very least she is being amazingly disrespectful to him. But that aside, the kids really need to know what to do.

 

[Bluecube]

To my knowledge anyone can get a copy of a probate/ will so you can get a copy for yourself if you wish. A quick google shows there a government website for dealing with such things

 

[swillsy]

Have you checked here : https://www.nationalwillregister.co.uk/

Sounds suss tbh

 

[Cosimo]

But that aside, the kids really need to know what to do.

This may sound obvious but either they or you should be speaking to a solicitor asap.

 

[Stu999]

My brother died a few years back.

Thing is, I know he left what he described as a complex will. However, mistake one, no one but his wife knows where it is.

So how do you know what the content of it is or even if it has been drawn up correctly?

If it isn’t in the correct format wouldn’t everything pass to the wife by default?

 

[SpellowHouse]

To my knowledge anyone can get a copy of a probate/ will so you can get a copy for yourself if you wish. A quick google shows there a government website for dealing with such things

She hasn't applied for probate.

 

[SpellowHouse]

So how do you know what the content of it is or even if it has been drawn up correctly?

If it isn’t in the correct format wouldn’t everything pass to the wife by default?

Because he talked about it. Although we don't know any of the fine details, he did say that it was complex, and he left a percentage of his properties to his kids.

The only reason to believe it is valid is that he was not the sort of person to make mistakes over such matters. Having said that, he did make the serious blunder of trusting it all to his wife.

If it isn't in the correct format then it's up to the government, but since she hasn't applied for probate, no one knows.

We know that there is one property that may well have been in joint names, but there is also at least one that is not. Also, a lot of money in shares. As far as I know, only items that are in joint name automatically go anywhere! Everything else is up to the will or probate.

As I understand it, because there are potential tax implications over the items that are not joint, then she has broken the law already. But we really don't know how the kids can force her hand on this. Other than taking it all to court, which is rather difficult since we don't actually have a copy of the will.

 

[RxR]

You might consider asking a solicitor for help before she spends the lot.

 

[currantloaf]

Sorry for your loss.

Depending on allowances and complexity of the will (no legal expert here) there could be interest accruing on any IHT due. You really need to get advice ASAP

Do you know if your brothers death has been registered and if so when ?

Likewise has his death been posted in The Gazzette & Local newspaper - is it possible to check this ?

I would check if this has been done and if so try to contact local solicitor firms to see if they have any information they can reveal.

 

[MissChief]

She sounds like a piece of work! Sorry you and your nieces/nephews are going though this.

 

[jigger]

Sounds like his children should ask to see the will.

 

[MissChief]

Sounds like his children should ask to see the will.

And present a United front, all of them, glaring her down, asking, nay demanding to see it. One at a time and she’ll work them to her side. They need to be together.

 

[SmokeKingGun]

Probate unfortunately there is no time limit, she could could make it difficult for you.

However if inheritance tax is due I believe you have 12 months to calculate and settle.

I think fines are added after that so if IHT is due will need to contact them sooner or later - this could also be how you can force her to deal with it. One way or another you should expect fines if IHT is due.

Check https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry for details of house(s)

325k IHT allowance with added 175k residence nil rate band if house if passing to direct descendants.

If house was joint owned your brothers share will automatically pass to wife (uses zero IHT allowance)

Is the wife saying will doesn’t exist or have you just not seen it?

Sorry for your loss.

 

[EvilRob]

She is breaking the law, no doubt about that, but we are uncertain whether she is unaware of that or just intends to never apply for probate because it's in her interest not to.

Not necessarily. She may not even need to apply for probate depending on how your brother had organised his affairs. Executors really have way too much power in this country and it leads to beneficiaries getting screwed over. Wish it was different.

 

[peterwalkley]

Is IHT relevant ? I thought (and a quick google seems to confirm) that there is no IHT between spouses.

More importantly, how old are the kids ? If she's frittering the money away, there's likely not a lot you can do without a lot of money being spent on lawyers - all of which will come out of the estate.

 

[EvilRob]

More importantly, how old are the kids ? If she's frittering the money away, there's likely not a lot you can do without a lot of money being spent on lawyers - all of which will come out of the estate.

Unfortunately, it probably won't come out of the estate at least until you have gone to court, won, and got the court to agree it should. Whereas the executors can pay their costs out of the estate. Being the executor is really an awesome position and everything else sucks. Lesson: make sure your main beneficiaries are all executors.

 

[booyaka]

If he had a will - it's almost certain that there will be a copy of it with a solicitor. If it's "complex" as you suggest, he won't have done it himself and just kept a copy, he would likely have done it via a solicitor. He would have to have had a "witness" sign it that is not a direct beneficiary of the will.

The involvement of friends and family in executing a Will can be tricky. If an intended beneficiary of the Will i.e. someone who is due to receive something under the terms of the Will, acts as one of the witnesses, then the gift to them will be void. This is pursuant to Section 15 of the Wills Act 1837.

Do you know who he used previously as a solicitor or alike? Family solicitor etc?

Also an executor would have likely been appointed in the will - That could be solicitors/spouse/family etc.

If you want to get involved - I would suggest you speak with your own solicitor/lawyer and voice your concerns. Whether you wish to be involved, it up to you.

 

[SpellowHouse]

Is IHT relevant ? I thought (and a quick google seems to confirm) that there is no IHT between spouses.

More importantly, how old are the kids ? If she's frittering the money away, there's likely not a lot you can do without a lot of money being spent on lawyers - all of which will come out of the estate.

The IHT zero is £325,000. However, the surviving spouse combines both so can receive £650,000 or £1m if it includes the home. However, my brother owned three houses, all of which are worth over £300,000, and on top of that we know he had at least another £350,000 in savings. That means, as we understand it, there is tax to pay, which means she is in trouble. Also, because she may well use the IHT zero for herself now, there won't be an allowance when she dies, which means the entire estate will be taxable at 40%. I think!

If he had a will - it's almost certain that there will be a copy of it with a solicitor. If it's "complex" as you suggest, he won't have done it himself and just kept a copy, he would likely have done it via a solicitor. He would have to have had a "witness" sign it that is not a direct beneficiary of the will.

The involvement of friends and family in executing a Will can be tricky. If an intended beneficiary of the Will i.e. someone who is due to receive something under the terms of the Will, acts as one of the witnesses, then the gift to them will be void. This is pursuant to Section 15 of the Wills Act 1837.

Do you know who he used previously as a solicitor or alike? Family solicitor etc?

Also an executor would have likely been appointed in the will - That could be solicitors/spouse/family etc.

If you want to get involved - I would suggest you speak with your own solicitor/lawyer and voice your concerns. Whether you wish to be involved, it up to you.

If there is one lesson in this. All beneficiaries should have a copy of the will.

Unfortunately, we don't know what solicitor he used.

I am not getting involved, but I would like to pass on some sense of priority to the kids. I don't want to point them in the wrong direction, but my immediate reaction is "contact a solicitor tomorrow". I may be over-reacting though.