Wireless doesnt work. Wired does.

[BoomAM]

Heres a wierd one for you all.
Computer network at a School: Proxy Server, DNS Server, DHCP Server, general server:

Last October i setup 3 WiFi access points on the network. All configured to hand out IPs & to have their IP as static.
Tested on an Apple iBook & a Thinkpad, both, when running Firefox, come up with the proxy user/pass dialogue box that is standard to access the net on the network.
Now. We have 10 Dell laptops, that, for some reason, work as above when connected via a ethernet cable to the network. But not when running Wireless.
They do connect to the access points, and i give them IPs, that work.
So, according to the wireless software on them, they are connected to the access points fine. With the correct DNS settings as well.
Now, putting the proxys, that work when wired, into Firefox when running wireless does nothing. No access whatsover.
It cant even ping the access point its connected to!

Ideas?

 

[Burbleflop]

Any encryption on the network? I've seen this problem a few times and it has been down to a wrong WPA preshared key on each occasion. It struck me as strange though that thet PC reported to be connected to the wireless network even though the PSK was wrong.

 

[BoomAM]

The access point doesnt use WPA or anything special. I was the one who unpacked them, put them on the network, set them up. Put the normal 128bit encryption on them & setup the IPs.

The network isnt encrypted in anyway.

 

[tolien]

So when they connect, they're assigned IPs?
Perfectly possible to mistype a WEP key too, try disabling it altogether.

 

[Burbleflop]

Put the normal 128bit encryption on them & setup the IPs.

The network isnt encrypted in anyway.

You're contradicting yourself - you enabled 128bit WEP but there isn't any encryption on the network?

 

[BoomAM]

So when they connect, they're assigned IPs?
Perfectly possible to mistype a WEP key too, try disabling it altogether.

No. They can be assigned IPs. But, they are assigned IPs manually by me. As it allows me & the other admin to keep those IPs for the Laptops only.
They havnt been mistyped. And the DNS, IP, Subnet, Gateway & all the other addresses are perfect.

You're contradicting yourself - you enabled 128bit WEP but there isn't any encryption on the network?

No im not. It was asked if i had WPA on. And also asked if i had network encryption on. It wasnt asked if i had wireless network encryption on. Theres a difference. But, i can see where it may have been interpritted wrong.

WEP 128Bit is on. The key is perfect.

All of the variables that are manually entered, like the WEP, and the manual settings that are assigned have been checked 3x by me, and a few other people. All fine.
The same settings work on my iBook & my Thinkpad. But not on these Dell laptops. And i know what the next comment will be: Yes the iBook & Thinkpad are not on at the same time as the other ones. And even if they were, they're IPs are slightly different. They have the IPs of xxx.xxx.x.101 to 102. The Dells have 102 upto 254 available to them. The entire range has been 'reserved' for the usage on the Wireless laptops.

Its odd, because ive loaded a Knoppix Live CD onto one of the Laptops, and it inhibits the same problems as in WindowsXP.
The only 'answer' is that the RM based server software doesnt like the combination of Dell HW & an Wireless access point. But to me, thats not a plausable answer, because as far as the servers concerned, the Dells are connected by a wire, and its just another generic laptop. The server doesnt see the access point as a wireless access point, or connected clients as being wireless. It just sees it as another hub/switch with connected clients
One of the Dells that im testing with aparentely works flawlessly on one of the Staffs home wireless network.

Ive been working on this 'problem' on/off for about 3 weeks now. Its only today that ive managed to get any meaningful time to look at it properly.
And its getting annoying. I cant see a reason why it shouldnt be working.

 

[MAllen]

• Are you sure your IP Addresses are unique and not clashing with anything else on the network?
• When you manually configure the IP Address, are you also setting up Gateway and DNS details?
• Can you ping anything from the Dell laptop? i.e. can you ping the gateway? Or can you ping the Access Point?
• 128-bit WEP is encrypting all of your network traffic over wireless. So I don't understand why you are arguing with the people trying to help you.
• Have you tried taking one of the troublesome access points out of the network, and just test with your Dells? When doing this, try turning off WEP completely. See if it will connect like that.
• Are you sure these Dells support the level of encryption you are looking for? (WEP 128-bit). There is no reason they shouldn't as my Dell is now over two years old and that is WEP 128-bit and WPA-PSK compatible).
• Silly question - but is the Wireless Enabled on the Dell Laptops? Press <Fn><f2> to toggle the Wireless card on and off.

 

[BoomAM]

Are you sure your IP Addresses are unique and not clashing with anything else on the network?

IPs are unique.

When you manually configure the IP Address, are you also setting up Gateway and DNS details?

Yes. Those details are inputted as well.

Can you ping anything from the Dell laptop? i.e. can you ping the gateway? Or can you ping the Access Point?

Nothing but the 127 jobbo ping wirelessly.

128-bit WEP is encrypting all of your network traffic over wireless. So I don't understand why you are arguing with the people trying to help you.

Im not arguing at all. I was simply pointing out something that someone else thought i was contradicting. A misunderstanding. That in no way qualifys as an argument.

Have you tried taking one of the troublesome access points out of the network, and just test with your Dells? When doing this, try turning off WEP completely. See if it will connect like that.

If i took the access points off the network, how would the dells connect wirelessly?
They connect to the access points fine, all of the software on the Dells that handle the Wifi says that its connected with valid IPs.

Are you sure these Dells support the level of encryption you are looking for? (WEP 128-bit). There is no reason they shouldn't as my Dell is now over two years old and that is WEP 128-bit and WPA-PSK compatible).
[*]Silly question - but is the Wireless Enabled on the Dell Laptops? Press <Fn><f2> to toggle the Wireless card on and off.]

Yes.
The Dells are D810s. Less than 3 months old.
The wireless on them is perminantely on, and the software that allows toggling of the on/off state reports it as being on.


As you can probably gather, its a very wierd problem.

 

[MAllen]

Can you ping anything from the Dell laptop? i.e. can you ping the gateway? Or can you ping the Access Point?

Nothing but the 127 jobbo ping wirelessly.

This confuses me. What do you mean? Please reword this answer. Are you saying that the only only thing that responds is the loopback on 127.0.0.1?


When tracing problems, I will start by "pinging" the access point. See if I get a response. Then I will ping the gateway and look for a response. I then ping www.bbc.co.uk and look for the response. How many of these respond for you?

Are there any psychotic Firewalls on the Dells? i.e. McAfee or Norton bloat?


When I suggested to "remove an access point from the network". I meant to take it into it's own, isolated test enviorment. So all you are then doing is trying to connect one laptop to a single access point. As you have fixed IP Addresses, it should be possible to have two laptops connected to an acceess point and then all three devices can ping each other. This will also allow you to mess around with WEP/WPA/etc ?


BTW - I assume that as the Dells are claiming that they are attached to the Access Points, then the Access Point should show the MAC addresses of the connected devices? Have you checked for that?

 

[BoomAM]

This confuses me. What do you mean? Please reword this answer. Are you saying that the only only thing that responds is the loopback on 127.0.0.1?

Yes. Thats all that pings.

Are there any psychotic Firewalls on the Dells? i.e. McAfee or Norton bloat?

No.
I disabled the Windows FW & ZoneAlarm on the laptop for testing. And its still no better.

When I suggested to "remove an access point from the network". I meant to take it into it's own, isolated test enviorment. So all you are then doing is trying to connect one laptop to a single access point. As you have fixed IP Addresses, it should be possible to have two laptops connected to an acceess point and then all three devices can ping each other. This will also allow you to mess around with WEP/WPA/etc ?

So have the access point disconnected from the network itself for testing? So the only thing physically connected to the access point is the power adaptor?

BTW - I assume that as the Dells are claiming that they are attached to the Access Points, then the Access Point should show the MAC addresses of the connected devices? Have you checked for that?

Strangly, the Access Point doesnt seem to want to let me access the web interface. So im stuck with using the D-Link software to configure them. Which dont allow me to see what clients are connected. So i have to go on the activity LEDs & what the laptops are reporting.

 

[Lummux]

Have you tried a fresh install on one of the laptops? maybe theres some weird setting dell have put in there xp install.
As for knoppix maybe it didnt like the WLAN Card.

 

[BoomAM]

The Dells dont come with a restore CD afaik. And completely nuking them and then re-installing is out of the question.
The Dell restore CDs that come with other laptops appear to return the laptops to their shipped state, with windows, office & other apps on.
We dont have seperate Windows & office CDs to work with unfortunatelly.

 

[MAllen]

No need to restore the Dell. Their wifi is good out of the box.

if knoppix is doing *** same as XP, this is pointing to something incompatible with the Dell and DLink - which is odd.

have you tried setting up the laptops to conect to each other? i.e. see if you can get the wireless to work in any way at all?

If you are only getting a ping from 127.0.0.1 then that is just pointin back at itself. Just means you have a working TCP/IP stack, but your wifi is being blocked from outsdie. Very odd.

Suggestion - on the Dell. Go into the Network Config. LOcate the WiFi icon. Right click and Disable it. Then right click again and re-enable it. I have noticed that since I update the power saving drivers on my Dell it has got far to agressive at disabling it.

Have you tried DHCP at all? jsut in case it is something about the fixed IP Address?


I gott go out now... but will be back tommorowo with some better thought through suggestions (and some cleaner typing with a spell checker in use... lol)

Could the DLinks be working in 802.11b mode only and banning the 802.11g Dells? Or something like that? This is why I am suggesting to isolate the Access POint and experiment with completely disabling the Encryption while testing.

 

[BoomAM]

Hmm.
The wireless on the laptops works.
Several staff members report it working at home on their wireless routers.
The 'disable/enable' in the Dell software, which is actually some Intel software, ive already tryed. No luck their either.

I'll give DHCP a try next time im in. But i cant see there being a problem with the IPs.
The Laptops report themselves as being connected fine, and the same IPs work through the ethernet fine.

The D-Links broadcast two seperate SSIDs, depending on mode.
I have one set to broadcase LocationX 54g, and the other set at LocationX 11g.
So the network list in the Wireless software sees both.

 

[MAllen]

(Weird - I could have sworn that I had already posted a response here..... )

What I would do next....

• Take one Access point and Two laptops.
• Cable one laptop to Access Point with cable.
• Set second laptop as my WiFi test box.
• Turn off WEP/WPA/wtc encryption on the Access Point.
• Connect the second laptop to the Access Point.
• Logon to the web page or custom utility on the D-Link AP to see if the Dell is listed.
• Try to ping laptops from the other laptop. i.e. wired to Wifi and vice versa.
• Swear at the Computer Pixies who are getting in the way.
• Experiment with the various settings in the DLink AP to see if there is anyway for the Wirless to work cleanly.
• Maybe it is creating some "non-standard" WiFi protocol? Especially if it is knocking out both a 54g and 11g from the same box (Sure you didn't mean 11b?). Try putting this back to "auto" speed negotiation. See if the Dell can pick a different level of WiFi?
• Check for new firmware for the D-Link WiFi APs

Note: When I bought my Dell 2.5 years ago, there was a choice of Intel Centrino Wireless or a Dell wireless card. The default Intel Centrino card was only 802.11b whereas the Dell gave me 802.11b, 802.11a and 802.11g. So could be worth double checking exactly what that card handles.

Have you tried updateing Dell drivers? Dell support site is quite good.

Also - Netstumbler is always very useful for WiFi issues.... (Google for it)

 

[snagrat]

Your not by any chance running Microsoft ISA on the server?

I had the problem the other day whereas ISA was misconfigured so altough the wired worked, the dlink box I was using wasn't sending out an IP address. The laptops would see the network and connect but no IP address.

In the end a few tweaks in ISA allowed them to dishout IP address.

 

[BoomAM]

Take one Access point and Two laptops.
Cable one laptop to Access Point with cable.
Set second laptop as my WiFi test box.
Turn off WEP/WPA/wtc encryption on the Access Point.
Connect the second laptop to the Access Point.
Logon to the web page or custom utility on the D-Link AP to see if the Dell is listed.
Try to ping laptops from the other laptop. i.e. wired to Wifi and vice versa.

Im not sure if the webpage config will work. It doesnt normally for some reason.

Swear at the Computer Pixies who are getting in the way.

Already done.

Experiment with the various settings in the DLink AP to see if there is anyway for the Wirless to work cleanly.

Dont take offence: But can people read my posts. They connect to the AP's fine. If there was a connection error, then they wouldnt connect at all.

Maybe it is creating some "non-standard" WiFi protocol? Especially if it is knocking out both a 54g and 11g from the same box (Sure you didn't mean 11b?). Try putting this back to "auto" speed negotiation. See if the Dell can pick a different level of WiFi?

I'm gonna try switching off the slower protocol next time im in.
As for 'Auto Speed Negotiation', there is no such setting on the AP's.

Check for new firmware for the D-Link WiFi APs

It had the latest out of the box. Still has the latest.

To clarify: The laptops connect to the AP's. They report as connected. They have valid IPs. They have valid settings. The encryptions are correct and working. Everything about the connection to the AP's is working. No errors whatsoever.

Have you tried updateing Dell drivers? Dell support site is quite good.

Nope. As the laptops are v.new, updated drivers have not been tryed.
I will however advise one of the staff members to run a windows update, and then when ive got the laptop, i'll do some scouring of the Dell website.

Also - Netstumbler is always very useful for WiFi issues.... (Google for it)

I'll try that as well.

 

[BoomAM]

Your not by any chance running Microsoft ISA on the server?

I had the problem the other day whereas ISA was misconfigured so altough the wired worked, the dlink box I was using wasn't sending out an IP address. The laptops would see the network and connect but no IP address.

In the end a few tweaks in ISA allowed them to dishout IP address.

Im not sure.
The network is RM CC3 Based. Im not entirely sure of whats running on the server apart from what ive put on there.
The laptops have IPs that work, and list as connected. So im not sure if thats the problem.
Although i'll see whats on the server when im next in.

 

[MAllen]

Dont take offence: But can people read my posts. They connect to the AP's fine. If there was a connection error, then they wouldnt connect at all.

Yep - I hear you on that one. But you also say that you cannot ping anything except for 127.0.0.1. At the very least, if you are genuinly connected, you should be able to ping the AP from the laptop.

I had a real stupid one the other day. I was setting up a Netgear USB WiFi NIC connecting to a Netgear AP. I was using WPA and the AP was telling me that the NIC was connected. And the XP PC was also telling me it was connected. And the Netgear Util on the PC was telling me it was connected.

But I could not access the web. I eventually found out that there as a typo in the WPA key I was using. In my hast to "cut and paste" the key, I was missing the semi colon from the end of it. So the key was wrong, but the Netgear utility didn't tell me this.

This sounds very similar to what you are seeing.....

This is why I would mess around with the exact keys and encryption in use on the AP. Starting with no encryption at all, then working up from there.

I wasn't ignoring your comments about being connected. I just don't 100% trust the computer to tell us. Especially as it can't ping the AP. And your valid IP Addresses are ones you have entered, so they are valid - but they are not conencted to the network.

 

[snagrat]

Im not sure.
The network is RM CC3 Based.

Theres your problem

How come RM aren't installing the wireless stuff? RM install alsorts of stuff on there servers so I would suggest you take the problem to them

Them may and charge you there callout rate but that the buggers they are.

If you cant tell I work for a competitor to RM. We hate them