Work post - TUPE questions

[squarehead94]

Evening all.
So recently discovered that the public sector company I work for is being purchased by a similar chain of companies that work alongside the NHS.

Obviously this has been a big shock, however I now need to assess my future there.

Work has told me that everything will remain the same, our contracts will be honoured, no interviews for your own job etc. But due to a lot of unfilled promises in the past, a few of us are a bit weary to believe that. For example, this group is also purchasing a couple of other local sites and may be looking to centralize the workload - meaning some staff may be considered surplus.

My particular job, I work in a 2 person team in a bit of a specialist subject - not anybody could walk in and do the work I so (trying not to sound arrogant here, just not sure as to how much I can divulge) so I am not too sure that they can really centralize my particular job, but other staff at other sites will be trained to do what I do, so there is a fear of being surplus.

The management has told us that we will be TUPE'd over, and all contracts will be honoured and transferred and for us as the employees, nothing will change per se. It will just be under a new ownership, whilst retaining all the same staff and management.

I am wondering, has anyone been TUPE'd over in their working life and can give an insight to this? I will of course be seeking guidance from my union, but it's been a hectic few days and I'm only 22, I've never experienced this and I guess I'm a bit green around the ears. I want to believe that TUPE is fine and a simple process that changes nothing for me, but I don't know what to believe with some of the staff telling me that TUPE allows them to change your conditions of employment, pensions scheme can be affected and they can essentially move you into whichever department they see fit.

I like the position I am in, I don't want to be relocated to another department.

Has anyone any tips or things to consider or general advice about this so I'm a bit more clued up? The company purchasing us is coming for a 121 session with our staff tomorrow and Wednesday to talk to us about it. Im very worried.

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Windle]

Don't worry, TUPE is there for a reason and that's to protect your employment and current conditions. It should be seamless, same job just with a different company.

 

[DaleTheWhale]

When we* took over a contract for a large project the existing team TUPE'd across into ours, they kept all their T&C's and gained some of the benefits of our company as well, if they didn't want to TUPE I believe they moved onto other projects (different for you however).

Each of them have kept their role within the team and they've never been asked to change (where as permanent staff i.e. have been given the option or have been moved).

If they follow the rules (from my experience and what TUPE is for) you'll be OK.

*We, as in the company I work for, so I don't know the full policy/rules.

 

[Pudney]

Don't worry, TUPE is there for a reason and that's to protect your employment and current conditions. It should be seamless, same job just with a different company.

It doesn't protect you from redundancy, although the purchasing company will still need to go through a proper process etc.

 

[Mr Badger]

Don't worry, TUPE is there for a reason and that's to protect your employment and current conditions. It should be seamless, same job just with a different company.

^Not really this (unfortunately).

this group is also purchasing a couple of other local sites and may be looking to centralize the workload

Although in theory a TUPE should mean that nothing major changes on day one, that doesn't mean that things can't change further down the road. In particular if the employer can demonstrate that there is an ETO (Economic, technical or organisational) reason for the subsequent change. If there was to be a major restructure of the organisation following the purchase of several sites/companies then that could be a justification to impact on the TUPE population.

 

[squarehead94]

Thanks guys. This is what I mean, I didn't know any of this. I guessed some will have had positive and negative experiences.

They have said to us that nobody will be moved to other sites so essentially all the staff in our branch will remain - but whether that changes in the future I'm not sure. We have a large reception team for example, which obviously as we and other sites use the same software and share the same job roles, they would be particularly at risk, but as I say, even in my job, other sites will have staff dedicated to that job so I'm just a bit scared I'll be deemed surplus.

Must admit, rather glad I didn't purchase the house I was looking at, I've been here coming up to 3 years now and due to a lot of staff being 20+ years service, I assumed it would be a safe job for the long term. I guess I was wrong.

 

[squarehead94]

Can they make any changes to your contract? I.e. working hours, rate of pay, holiday entitlements or anything like that?

 

[Mr Badger]

Probably a good idea for you to do a bit of reading:

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1655

https://www.gov.uk/transfers-takeovers/overview

 

[terley]

I'll give you a story of what happened to a company i worked for:

4 shops
shop 1: £1,200,000.00 turn over per year 55 staff (i was store manager)
shop 2: £1,000,000.00 turn over per year 49 staff
shop 3: £960,000.00 turn over per year 44 staff
shop 4: £890,000.00 turn over per year 39 staff

Previous owner paid as follows:
Store manager monthly = £8.10 p/h + £40 per 1% growth vs same period last year + 0.25%-0.75% of monthly takings if targets where hit.

Average wage was between £28,000-£44,000 a year depending on hours worked and sales driven

Shift managers monthly = £7.60 p/h + 0.25%-0.75% of monthly takings if targets where hit.

Average wage was between £16,000-£23,000 a year depending on hours worked and sales driven

----------------------------
Late 2015 the owner called a suprise meeting saying the business had been sold to a new owner who already had over 150 other stores.. Apprehension set in... We where told that all contracts/pay and working conditions and systems would be kept.

Today things are as follows:

Store manager monthly = £28,000 per year salary, must work 45 hours per week and hit targets.

Shift managers monthly (salary) = £22,000 per year salary, must work 40 hours per week and hit targets.

(New) Shift managers monthly (hourly) = £7.60 per hour if targets are not hit or £8.50 per hour if targets are hit plus bonuses for good target yields. This system allows management to work less than the 40 hour weeks.
Average wage was between £16,000-£23,000 a year depending on hours worked and sales driven

Other work conditions have changed to a degree with extra emphasis on the systems they have in place in terms of E&S and in-store ordering, insurance has changed with staff required to follow much stricter rules in regards to their own work.

One benefit is because of the huge increase in company size, their is no restriction on investment and marketing and renovations and innovations are commonplace whereas previously they where few and far between.

Managers also have a lot less responsibility and have to answer for every single action they make.

I quit my job shortly after the take-over for family reasons but i posted this to tell you that regardless of their promises.. they can change things over time and you may end up working in a completely different environment.

 

[Rotty]

Can they make any changes to your contract? I.e. working hours, rate of pay, holiday entitlements or anything like that?

not if its as a result of the transfer

 

[squarehead94]

Hi Terley. Thanks for that. I'm not sure whether the pay will change because as it happens its an NHS based business being bought by a private company that works with the NHS (from my basic understanding, they buy up these businesses and NHS funding goes through them at which point they distribute the budget to their new individual businesses.

As it happens, we are one of the lowest paid anyway, so I can't see a drastic rate of pay drop. I work 35hrs pw, on a basic 8.13ph. my colleague that does the same job is on £11 or so pH, not based on a rates system, she got that from a previous role and when her role ceased to exist (was a very very old IT role, I'm talking pre windows 95) they honoured her pay. So I'm guessing her wages may be an issue but honestly if they tried to drop my pay anymore I would just go back to bar work for £7ph.

Having read into the company a bit, they do seem genuinely interested in keeping staff and morale high, the incentive for them is the funding from the NHS and all the funding the NHS contracts also give them, because we as a business aren't a profit based business, all of their profits will be in NHS contracts and NHS bonuses generated by each practice (for reaching certain targets, e.g. number of flu vaccinations given, staying within prescribing budgets etc) and I know that one practice this company owns was actually failing, unfit for purpose however they kept it going and got it back stable, because it was an invaluable service to a area with a high poverty rate.

I think I'm preparing myself to be looking for another job now, in case they are funny, I'm just glad I have some insight now as to what to expect. I was mainly worried they would cut my hours in half or something daft like that, or make me redundant. It's easier to get a new job when your in one.

 

[Dolph]

It doesn't protect you from redundancy, although the purchasing company will still need to go through a proper process etc.

You are no more at risk from redundancy due to tupe than you were if you hadn't been through the process. If there is a risk it's due to potential duplication of roles, and that creates risk whether you are a tupe employee or an employee of the takeover firm.

I've been through it twice and tupe is not an issue, most problems that people associate with tupe are more to do with the companies involved rather than tupe regulations, and the risks are the same for both transferring and non-transferring employees.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

TUPE protects you for a period of time (3 months)

After that time you lose TUPE protection and should they want to, for example, standardise their pension payments, they would be able to do this. Although most contractual changes require a notice period.

 

[TommyV]

I've worked for a large UK telecoms company before who TUPE'd the department I worked in to a service provider. The TUPE was seamless, just be prepared for some very agressive middle management.

Applied for 6 months sabbatical on my third day with them, and left 3 weeks after my return

 

[Deleted member 66701]

I've been TUPE'd twice - ITSA (Civil Service) > EDS > Hewlett Packard.

TUPE only protects you on day one and changes can be made after this, although they should be negotiated etc which isn't any different as to how it would work if you stayed with your existing employer. Any doubts, have a chat with your union, they'll have a pretty good handle on the technicalities.

Good guide to TUPE provisions here.

TL;DR - You'll be fine.

 

[LeeUK]

Been TUPE'd twice within the same company on takeovers due to company going into administration. Subsequently the third company also went bust too after I left.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

TUPE protects you for a period of time (3 months)

90 days is redundancy protection only.

 

[Rotty]

TUPE protects you for a period of time (3 months)

After that time you lose TUPE protection and should they want to, for example, standardise their pension payments, they would be able to do this. Although most contractual changes require a notice period.

that's just not right, there is no time limit

 

[Rotty]

I've been TUPE'd twice - ITSA (Civil Service) > EDS > Hewlett Packard.

TUPE only protects you on day one and changes can be made after this, although they should be negotiated etc which isn't any different as to how it would work if you stayed with your existing employer. Any doubts, have a chat with your union, they'll have a pretty good handle on the technicalities.

Good guide to TUPE provisions here.

TL;DR - You'll be fine.

will you be part of the CSC thing?

 

[Tunney]

I've been TUPEd twice and it all worked as intended. We chose a committee and the committee negotiated a deal with the new employer on our behalf. The majority of what was in our contracts stayed the same but a few small details were changed. For example, company A gave staff a car allowance but company B didn't offer such a scheme. Company B gave staff a pay raise equal to the value of the benefit. Overall, we gained far more than we lost.