working for your dole......

[nick.lidgett]

So I was just reading about Mr Osbournes policy of making the long term unemployed of this country working for their benefits by litter picking, graffiti removal and cooking meals for the oldies.

'So we’re saying there’s no option of doing nothing for your benefits. No something for nothing anymore.
'People are going to have to do things to get their dole and that is going to help them into work – that is the crucial point. This is all activity that is actually going to help them get ready for the world of work.'

George Osbourne

I think this is a marvellous idea, it certainly cant do any harm to these people and in the process the rest of us hard working individuals get to live in a litter/graffiti free environment and get to see some of our tax money going to good use while are grandparents are being fed like kings and queens.

However, and this is the sticking point for me, how can they implement this scheme, COST EFFECTIVELY?
I mean will it be like a chain gang with paid supervisors or will they be trusted to their own devices? I cant see how this can work in the real world.

 

[nick.lidgett]

Work camps would be the best idea. Just remember work sets you free.

Well yeah that's another thing im not sure about, isn't this kind of like "forced labour", I mean yeah im all for the benefit claimers to work for their dole but something still seems a bit immoral about it to me, surely when you see these people out in their high vis jackets it will further fuel the "them and us" feelings.

 

[nick.lidgett]

You're effectively working 30 hours a week for 45 quids worth of JSA.

Where does it say about the hours of work, I may have missed that bit?

 

[nick.lidgett]

I think this is an absolutely great idea! Take one of the most vulnerable groups in society and place one of their raw basic and most intrinsic needs in the hands of people who haven't got the necessary skills to ensure the job is done right. I think they should extend this idea further and consider having convicted paedophiles work in schools as assistants therefore introducing some extra hands to help out and giving the felons a chance to practice self control and restraint.

I see where you are coming from, Im still not 100% on the moralities of this suggested scheme, but I like it in principle.

 

[nick.lidgett]

If it's work, I'd expect minimum wage for it.

If it's social security, I wouldn't expect to work for it. I would expect the government to help me survive until I can find a job that pays a wage.

That's how society works, right? Taxes and all that.

He is talking about long term claimants, not the people "between" jobs.
How is it fair people can go years and years on the dole at the expense of "taxes and all that"?

 

[nick.lidgett]

How many hours of work will they force people to do?Don't want this turning into some sort of free labour for hire.The primary goal of the job centre is help people find jobs and I know for a fact they are useless at helping mainly "young" persons find jobs.

Mainly because "young" people think unskilled labour is below them, even though they have no skills themselves, and refuse such jobs. enter the migrant workforce.

 

[nick.lidgett]

So the cons can't think of nothing new so they copy what Maggie did and that never worked either what a bunch of idiots.


Thanks Cameron

It was Osbourne actually, lets not turn this into a blue bashing thread please, im eager to find the majority viewpoint about the scheme, not the party behind it.

 

[nick.lidgett]

They need to distinguish the Lazy from the un-lucky..

well I would like to think anyone who has been on the dole over 2 months is lazy

 

[nick.lidgett]

What about people who live out in the sticks, surley they can't be forced to pay public transport costs upfront and claim back each week which takes ages to get back.

Why not? people in employment have to pay upfront and "dont" get to claim it back

just being objective here.

 

[nick.lidgett]

Yay, lets make the unemployed do the same thing as criminals on community service do. After all, being jobless is a crime isn't it?

youre missing the point, its for long term claimers not the genuinely unemployed, looking for work, cant wait to get started again claimers.

 

[nick.lidgett]

You mean the stars of Jezza Kyle

no they dont have to work, they are celebrity now

 

[nick.lidgett]

Ok so raise the bar to 6 months, if anybody cant find a job in 6 months, then imho there can be absolutely no excuse. In 6 months you should be able to find a job, it might not be the job you like or the job youre qualified for but its a job.

 

[nick.lidgett]

Genuine question, what if the person applying for the jobs is very poorly educated with poor social skills (trying, but is consistently the worst candidate, ergo doesn't get the job)?.

If every single area has say 500 very poor candidates, is it not reasonable to assume that those same 500 people would never get the jobs (with the more skilled people jumping in & out of the job-centre as they actually get the jobs) - would this eventually not lead to long term unemployment? (regardless as to how much effort is put in) - additionally, would this problem be solved by forcing these people into unpaid work?.

Unfortunately it wouldn't.

All it would really achieve is a massive hike in child poverty, the price for which would become apparent once those young children grow into criminals or people reliant on our mental & physical care facilities.

You can't cut in one area & ignore the economic impact on the wider system (when the same entity, the tax payer) covers the cost for both.

Look, im not sure about how you can filter out the lazy from the unlucky, I suggested a time limited for claimants to find employment, obviously its not the best idea and should probably factor in other criteria like you have mentioned.
Beyond government work centres for the completely unemployable (which I dont agree with), I guess we just have to keep paying for them.

 

[nick.lidgett]

my question is simple, how does forcing a person to spend all week picking up litter, help them to find a job? other than by shaming them into taking any job just to get off the stupid programme? what other requirements will there be? you have to stay in work for at least a year, or go right back to litter picking?

I think at the very least it will go some way to helping them understand that you have to give to receive and not just sit back and take.

If this scheme was implemented properly, fairly and cost effectively how much better would this country be for it?

 

[nick.lidgett]

This may shed some more light

The thing that gets my attention is

"And for those with underlying problems, like drug addiction and illiteracy, there will be an intensive regime of help. No one will be ignored or left without help. But no one will get something for nothing.

 

[nick.lidgett]

Another attack on the poor lol What, Voting around the corner is it.

Its not an attack on the poor, where do you get that idea from?
Poor people are not all unemployed.

A lot of guys on here talk about "tin foil hats" well I suggest you take yours off and stop looking at this idea and see it as a way to catch votes and see it as a way of helping this country out of the economical mess its in now, its about time long term "employable" unemployed people start giving a bit back.

And I dont even think 30 hours a week is a lot as im at work over 60 every week.

 

[nick.lidgett]

(derp).

Although I wouldn't have worded it in such a seemingly ignorant way, he does have a point.

 

[nick.lidgett]

If there is work to be done, pay a wage for it.

They do get a "wage" for it, the get their prescriptions, jsa, council tax, housing benefit, free school meals for their kids.... everything working people have to pay for, what else should we
give them?

 

[nick.lidgett]

Why should the state pay hand over fist for these people for a prolonged period of time?
I dont understand how some people in here think this is acceptable!
How is its the states problem to educate people after they have left formal education?
Im sick of hearing about people who think they need to have their hand held by the state every step of the way.
If you dont like the idea that has been put forward then what do you suggest happens?

 

[nick.lidgett]

If you honestly think this scheme (and other forced labour schemes) don't do any harm, then frankly you're not thinking very hard.

Forced labour devalues that work, takes a job that somebody would be paid for, and reduces the salary to 0.

And if you think that jobseekers are all chavs who don't want to work, you're totally wrong.

This is why we NEED the Tories OUT. They exist for one reason and one reason only: to benefit the upper echelons of society while treading on, exploiting, and destroying the quality of life of those at the bottom.

The Tories = the Lords and Landowners of medieval society, and everbody who isn't their mate is a peasant.

The Tories will destroy society, plain and simple, whilst giving tax breaks to huge corporations and spending money on duck pond houses.

its not forced labour though, you just wont get your benefits.
I also never said all job seekers were chavs either.
did you even read the whole thread, including my thoughts on various points that have been made?
its not a conservative party thing either, its a get long term claimants off their backside and do something worth while, instead of just sitting back taking everything they can get, the benefit system is one of the factors that's dragging our economy through the gutter and something has got to give.