Working hours question...

Vulcan · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:22

SixTwoSix said:
Anyone got a source, everything i found online reads as guidelines

https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/overview

Using this law:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32003L0088&from=EN

Article 3

Daily rest

Member States shall take the measures necessary to ensure that every worker is entitled to a minimum daily rest period of 11 consecutive hours per 24-hour period.

Haze said:
yes?? when did you last work for a supermarket?? i have raised the issue before, because i think it sucks, like i said above, and when you look into it, you will see that 11hrs is just guidlines

No, it's the law.

Also, your supermarket sucks, it's poorly managed, that doesn't mean they are all like that.

JBuk · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:24

Haze said:
yes?? when did you last work for a supermarket?? i have raised the issue before, because i think it sucks, like i said above, and when you look into it, you will see that 11hrs is just guidlines

It's a legal entitlement depending on your job

https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/overview

There's a more detailed web page somewhere but I cba looking , possibly on the HSE website

Gilly · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:24

Your employer can enforce the 11 hour break as their own policy, but the 11 consecutive hours break is not a rule.

Phantom Shadow · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:24

Pretty sure plenty of people in audit won't be getting their 11(or 8?) hours during busy season. When I was at PwC policy was if the client was >90minute commute then you would stay in a hotel. One of the jobs in my office apparently was only a 10-20 minute commute but everyone was put in a hotel as it was deemed too dangerous for them to drive home with the ridiculous hours they were working.

SixTwoSix · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:26

Longbow said:
https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/overview

Using this law:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32003L0088&from=EN

Thanks for the link. It shows that its just an entitlement, not a requirement that the worker spends 11 hours out of work. I'm going to chase it up with management for an update on the company t&c's

Haze · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:27

so all i can see in the link is guidelines, difference between "have the right to" and "Must have"

Deleted User 234324 · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:28

In general the Working Time Regulations provide rights to:

a limit of an average 48 hours a week on the hours a worker can be required to work, though individuals may choose to work longer by "opting out"
5.6 weeks' paid leave a year
11 consecutive hours' rest in any 24-hour period
a 20-minute rest break if the working day is longer than six hours
one day off each week
a limit on the normal working hours of night workers to an average eight hours in any 24-hour period, and an entitlement for night workers to receive regular health assessments.

These are not "guidelines" they are rights you have, and any employer that doesn't provide these can end up at a tribunal.

Haze · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:29

and Gilly is always right, so thread closed

Vulcan · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:30

Gilly said:
Your employer can enforce the 11 hour break as their own policy, but the 11 consecutive hours break is not a rule.

No, it's law. There are exceptions though.

Phantom Shadow said:
Pretty sure plenty of people in audit won't be getting their 11(or 8?) hours during busy season. When I was at PwC policy was if the client was >90minute commute then you would stay in a hotel. One of the jobs in my office apparently was only a 10-20 minute commute but everyone was put in a hotel as it was deemed too dangerous for them to drive home with the ridiculous hours they were working.

Well commuting isn't working so that doesn't count.

Haze · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:33

im going to tell my personal manger, im taking them to a tribunal tomorrow just for giggles

Surveyor · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:34

The 11 hour rest period is contained in The Working Time Regulations 1998.

Daily rest

10. (1) An adult worker is entitled to a rest period of not less than eleven consecutive hours in each 24-hour period during which he works for his employer.

(2) Subject to paragraph (3), a young worker is entitled to a rest period of not less than twelve consecutive hours in each 24-hour period during which he works for his employer.

(3) The minimum rest period provided for in paragraph (2) may be interrupted in the case of activities involving periods of work that are split up over the day or of short duration.

It's not compulsory, it's an entitlement.

Some employers will make it compulsory on the basis that they have a duty of care to their employees which means that they should take all steps which are reasonably possible to ensure their health, safety and wellbeing.

If you wanted to work 16 hours a day, 7 seven days a week then in theory you could but your employer wouldn't permit it as they would be in breach of their duty of care.

JBuk · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:35

Longbow said:
No, it's law. There are exceptions though.

.

What is law?

There's an entitlement but nothing saying this has to be forced upon an employee :confused:

Haze · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:37

i do love the bit where he says there are exceptions,, so that translated means they are guidelines!

JBuk · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:39

Haze said:
i do love the bit where he says there are exceptions,, so that translated means they are guidelines!

Are you deliberately being obtuse?

It's pretty simple to understand and has already been explained many times in this thread, read one of the links and it explains which roles are excepted

Gilly · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:40

Longbow said:
No, it's law. There are exceptions though.

It's not law, it's an option open to the employee that the employer must honour if the employee chooses to enforce it.

Vulcan · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:40

JBuk said:
What is law?

The law is the law. As pointed out above, it's not guidelines.

Haze said:
i do love the bit where he says there are exceptions,, so that translated means they are guidelines!

If that's the case then there is no law, just guidelines. Killing someone isn't illegal, just against guidelines...

Gilly said:
It's not law, it's an option open to the employee that the employer must honour if the employee chooses to enforce it.

Yeah, and that's there because of law.

Burnsy2023 · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:42

Haze said:
i do love the bit where he says there are exceptions,, so that translated means they are guidelines!

There are exceptions (statutory defences) to many laws such as possession of a bladed article in a public place. That doesn't mean it's a guideline though.

SilverTongue · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:42

Oh FFS!!

https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work said:
Daily rest

Workers have the right to 11 hours rest between working days (eg if you finish work at 8pm, they shouldn’t start work again until 7am the next day).

Note "Workers have the right" not "Must have" therefore is NOT law, however an employer can enforce any government guideline they see fit on an employee is accordance with their duty of care

JBuk · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:43

Longbow said:
The law is the law. As pointed out above, it's not guidelines

What law? The law is that an employee is entitled to an 11 hr break ,there is no law that says an employer must force an employee to have this much of a rest period

Gilly · 20 Aug 2014 at 22:43

Longbow said:
The law is the law. As pointed out above, it's not guidelines.

If that's the case then there is no law, just guidelines. Killing someone isn't illegal, just against guidelines...

Yeah, and that's there because of law.

Are you trying to argue that murder and the working time directive are the same thing? The employee holds the cards, the employer has a duty of care. That's it.