Soldato
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Great justice , i guess the Irish will be delighted tonight 
World Cup 2010 - GROUP A (South Africa, Mexico, Uruguay, France) **spoilers**
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Soldato
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Certainly if you're a believer in karma France have paid for their cheating the Irish out of a place!
Reckon if you asked most French fans they'd have wished they hadn't qualified now!
Reckon if you asked most French fans they'd have wished they hadn't qualified now!
One of the managers at work is french and he had a £20 bet @ 40/1 that france wouldnt score and wouldnt get out the group stage, he wasnt a happy bunny, he said the French cant even mess up correctly and went home in a sulk.
Just watched it on MoTD, I did have some sympathy for him after the player's strike but after seeing that... he's a disgrace.
Caporegime
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http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6224010,00.html
Anyone seen this yet? Evra apparently trying to increase the drama even further but says he'll tell us exactly what happened and why, and I get the feeling the manager is going to be utterly utterly utterly utterly trounced by the team.
Why on earth did you have sympathy with the manager, from day one he's alienated the whole squad and angered almost everyone whose been involved with the team. He basis his decisions on astrology and is a complete nut job, he talks rubbish and makes awful decisions, he berates players for trying to win the ball back and refused to play people .
If he wasn't best friends with Platini he wouldn't have ever gotten the job, let alone kept it so long, it was solely Platini keeping him from being fired and even that didn't save him in the end. The two biggest pratts in French football together, no sympathy for either, sympathy for true greats of the game like Pires and Henry, Zidane and others who were crapped on by Raymond's insane reign.
Anyone seen this yet? Evra apparently trying to increase the drama even further but says he'll tell us exactly what happened and why, and I get the feeling the manager is going to be utterly utterly utterly utterly trounced by the team.
Why on earth did you have sympathy with the manager, from day one he's alienated the whole squad and angered almost everyone whose been involved with the team. He basis his decisions on astrology and is a complete nut job, he talks rubbish and makes awful decisions, he berates players for trying to win the ball back and refused to play people .
If he wasn't best friends with Platini he wouldn't have ever gotten the job, let alone kept it so long, it was solely Platini keeping him from being fired and even that didn't save him in the end. The two biggest pratts in French football together, no sympathy for either, sympathy for true greats of the game like Pires and Henry, Zidane and others who were crapped on by Raymond's insane reign.
Caporegime
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Oooh cant wait for that interview...should be interesting to say the least
Yup, I'm not quite sure why letting the french essentially grieve right now and telling all in a few days is somehow better though. Maybe they just want to actually have gotten off the plane they'll probably be on with Raymond and at a safe distance before laying into him
Funny stuff, i bet he was cursing for a long time when France finally managed to score a goalOne of the managers at work is french and he had a £20 bet @ 40/1 that france wouldnt score and wouldnt get out the group stage, he wasnt a happy bunny, he said the French cant even mess up correctly and went home in a sulk.
Soldato
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I thought I would post up this article I just wrote as it seems relevant. 
Evra to 'tell the truth' about French implosion
Paddy power ends French bid as team politics dominate World Cup
The opening stages of this World Cup, criticised in some quarters for a perceived lack of fireworks and some fairly attritional displays by the competition’s lesser lights, have nevertheless provided no shortage of entertainment. The spectacular fallout in the French camp - culminating in a very public bust-up between captain Patrice Evra and conditioning coach Robert Duverne, now immortalised on YouTube with more than 100,000 views – has dominated headlines more than any match. Half time breaks in otherwise dull matches have been livened up by increasingly melodramatic news from the team’s base in Knysna, while the BBC and ITV sought some news, any news, from their resident Frenchmen.
The popularity of this story in the English media seems in part due to the sheer openness of events, by contrast to the carefully orchestrated regime of Fabio Capello’s England. Capello’s team has, aside from the obvious individual indiscretions, provided precious little in the way of column inches. You sense clutching at straws when the manager’s standard policy of naming his team two hours prior to kick off suddenly becomes a major issue.
However, in the wake of two frustrating England draws and with the French player-led coup d'état under way, stories of unrest began to develop in the English hotel, primarily regarding the stiflingly tight control which Capello exercised upon his players. Facing a longer spell away from home comforts than the squad had previously experienced under Capello, boredom and frustration became an issue. And nowhere was this frustration more evident than in Wayne Rooney’s infamous post-match outburst, addressing the camera with an insensitive attack on the travelling fans (but, bizarrely, being careful enough to then conclude ‘****’s sake’ quietly enough to avoid being heard).
No team does a World Cup crisis quite as well as England, and it was John Terry who broke rank and spoke his mind in a valiant attempt to match the French dysfunction. Terry is amongst the squad’s most able public speakers, but he should have been wise enough to duck the calls for the team to ‘front up’ (as the gutter media so eloquently put it) to their failings. He should surely have realised that a public outburst benefitted no-one apart from the frantic print media who were scrambling for the next scandal.
Nevertheless, the former captain’s comments pointed to a new kind of player power at the national level, the same power which had visibly divided the French squad. ‘Don Fabio’ is likely to have been furious behind closed doors, and quickly quashed any speculation regarding a player revolution. It was his public comments that unwittingly demonstrated the impotence of a national team boss, as he refused to punish Terry but, like a parent, made it clear he was just very, very disappointed.
Had this happened at club level, Terry might have been dropped from the team, fined a week’s wages and maybe even shown the door at the end of the season. With England, Capello’s hands are tied, particularly with the absence of Rio Ferdinand and Ledley King. Dropping Terry would leave only Upson (in woeful form), Dawson (untested at international level) and Jamie ‘at least it wasn’t Liverpool’ Carragher at centre back, forcing the England manager to be unusually forgiving. Ironically, Terry’s comments were prompted by a question about Nicolas Anelka, his Chelsea teammate who was sent home from the French team for privately undermining his manager. In that respect, England’s self-professed ‘big personality in the dressing room’ can consider himself fortunate to have got off lightly.
Going into the World Cup, a squad of 23 at the disposal of each manager seems generous and offers cover for most eventualities. What this tournament has highlighted is that the FIFA ruling that no changes may be made after a team’s initial match gives the players themselves a significant amount of power during the tournament. If the players refuse to train, there are no reserves threatening to take their places. Indeed, if there is a dispute between player and manager, only the latter can be replaced during the tournament. You wonder if the Fédération Française de Football weighed up the relative merits of sending home head coach Raymond Domenech, a lame duck before the tournament even began, ahead of Anelka.
Ultimately, Fabio Capello’s unusually careful approach has averted any imminent split in the England camp. The dismissal of Anelka proved catastrophic for the French by splitting the team entirely from the management. The English FA would have been desperate to avoid a similar embarrassment during the first real test of its Capello project. It remains to be seen whether Capello’s advice to his former captain will have been heeded by players of other nations considering a similar revolt, particularly among the Italian squad who, like England, laboured to two draws in their opening matches.
Azzuri coach Marcello Lippi even directly addressed the English problems, saying “I have read that Capello is worried about the fear of his players in their attitude towards this competition. I wouldn't like that to happen to us too.” Lippi hopes that by fully utilising the strengths of all his squad members, he can resolve any mental problems within the team, something Fabio Capello may consider given the lacklustre displays by those he has picked so far. Both men will know, however, that the best cure of all is concluding their group matches with a convincing win. Nothing less will do.
Evra to 'tell the truth' about French implosion
Paddy power ends French bid as team politics dominate World Cup
The opening stages of this World Cup, criticised in some quarters for a perceived lack of fireworks and some fairly attritional displays by the competition’s lesser lights, have nevertheless provided no shortage of entertainment. The spectacular fallout in the French camp - culminating in a very public bust-up between captain Patrice Evra and conditioning coach Robert Duverne, now immortalised on YouTube with more than 100,000 views – has dominated headlines more than any match. Half time breaks in otherwise dull matches have been livened up by increasingly melodramatic news from the team’s base in Knysna, while the BBC and ITV sought some news, any news, from their resident Frenchmen.
The popularity of this story in the English media seems in part due to the sheer openness of events, by contrast to the carefully orchestrated regime of Fabio Capello’s England. Capello’s team has, aside from the obvious individual indiscretions, provided precious little in the way of column inches. You sense clutching at straws when the manager’s standard policy of naming his team two hours prior to kick off suddenly becomes a major issue.
However, in the wake of two frustrating England draws and with the French player-led coup d'état under way, stories of unrest began to develop in the English hotel, primarily regarding the stiflingly tight control which Capello exercised upon his players. Facing a longer spell away from home comforts than the squad had previously experienced under Capello, boredom and frustration became an issue. And nowhere was this frustration more evident than in Wayne Rooney’s infamous post-match outburst, addressing the camera with an insensitive attack on the travelling fans (but, bizarrely, being careful enough to then conclude ‘****’s sake’ quietly enough to avoid being heard).
No team does a World Cup crisis quite as well as England, and it was John Terry who broke rank and spoke his mind in a valiant attempt to match the French dysfunction. Terry is amongst the squad’s most able public speakers, but he should have been wise enough to duck the calls for the team to ‘front up’ (as the gutter media so eloquently put it) to their failings. He should surely have realised that a public outburst benefitted no-one apart from the frantic print media who were scrambling for the next scandal.
Nevertheless, the former captain’s comments pointed to a new kind of player power at the national level, the same power which had visibly divided the French squad. ‘Don Fabio’ is likely to have been furious behind closed doors, and quickly quashed any speculation regarding a player revolution. It was his public comments that unwittingly demonstrated the impotence of a national team boss, as he refused to punish Terry but, like a parent, made it clear he was just very, very disappointed.
Had this happened at club level, Terry might have been dropped from the team, fined a week’s wages and maybe even shown the door at the end of the season. With England, Capello’s hands are tied, particularly with the absence of Rio Ferdinand and Ledley King. Dropping Terry would leave only Upson (in woeful form), Dawson (untested at international level) and Jamie ‘at least it wasn’t Liverpool’ Carragher at centre back, forcing the England manager to be unusually forgiving. Ironically, Terry’s comments were prompted by a question about Nicolas Anelka, his Chelsea teammate who was sent home from the French team for privately undermining his manager. In that respect, England’s self-professed ‘big personality in the dressing room’ can consider himself fortunate to have got off lightly.
Going into the World Cup, a squad of 23 at the disposal of each manager seems generous and offers cover for most eventualities. What this tournament has highlighted is that the FIFA ruling that no changes may be made after a team’s initial match gives the players themselves a significant amount of power during the tournament. If the players refuse to train, there are no reserves threatening to take their places. Indeed, if there is a dispute between player and manager, only the latter can be replaced during the tournament. You wonder if the Fédération Française de Football weighed up the relative merits of sending home head coach Raymond Domenech, a lame duck before the tournament even began, ahead of Anelka.
Ultimately, Fabio Capello’s unusually careful approach has averted any imminent split in the England camp. The dismissal of Anelka proved catastrophic for the French by splitting the team entirely from the management. The English FA would have been desperate to avoid a similar embarrassment during the first real test of its Capello project. It remains to be seen whether Capello’s advice to his former captain will have been heeded by players of other nations considering a similar revolt, particularly among the Italian squad who, like England, laboured to two draws in their opening matches.
Azzuri coach Marcello Lippi even directly addressed the English problems, saying “I have read that Capello is worried about the fear of his players in their attitude towards this competition. I wouldn't like that to happen to us too.” Lippi hopes that by fully utilising the strengths of all his squad members, he can resolve any mental problems within the team, something Fabio Capello may consider given the lacklustre displays by those he has picked so far. Both men will know, however, that the best cure of all is concluding their group matches with a convincing win. Nothing less will do.
I thought I would post up this article I just wrote as it seems relevant.
Evra to 'tell the truth' about French implosion
Paddy power ends French bid as team politics dominate World Cup
The opening stages of this World Cup, criticised in some quarters for a perceived lack of fireworks and some fairly attritional displays by the competition’s lesser lights, have nevertheless provided no shortage of entertainment. The spectacular fallout in the French camp - culminating in a very public bust-up between captain Patrice Evra and conditioning coach Robert Duverne, now immortalised on YouTube with more than 100,000 views – has dominated headlines more than any match. Half time breaks in otherwise dull matches have been livened up by increasingly melodramatic news from the team’s base in Knysna, while the BBC and ITV sought some news, any news, from their resident Frenchmen.
The popularity of this story in the English media seems in part due to the sheer openness of events, by contrast to the carefully orchestrated regime of Fabio Capello’s England. Capello’s team has, aside from the obvious individual indiscretions, provided precious little in the way of column inches. You sense clutching at straws when the manager’s standard policy of naming his team two hours prior to kick off suddenly becomes a major issue.
However, in the wake of two frustrating England draws and with the French player-led coup d'état under way, stories of unrest began to develop in the English hotel, primarily regarding the stiflingly tight control which Capello exercised upon his players. Facing a longer spell away from home comforts than the squad had previously experienced under Capello, boredom and frustration became an issue. And nowhere was this frustration more evident than in Wayne Rooney’s infamous post-match outburst, addressing the camera with an insensitive attack on the travelling fans (but, bizarrely, being careful enough to then conclude ‘****’s sake’ quietly enough to avoid being heard).
No team does a World Cup crisis quite as well as England, and it was John Terry who broke rank and spoke his mind in a valiant attempt to match the French dysfunction. Terry is amongst the squad’s most able public speakers, but he should have been wise enough to duck the calls for the team to ‘front up’ (as the gutter media so eloquently put it) to their failings. He should surely have realised that a public outburst benefitted no-one apart from the frantic print media who were scrambling for the next scandal.
Nevertheless, the former captain’s comments pointed to a new kind of player power at the national level, the same power which had visibly divided the French squad. ‘Don Fabio’ is likely to have been furious behind closed doors, and quickly quashed any speculation regarding a player revolution. It was his public comments that unwittingly demonstrated the impotence of a national team boss, as he refused to punish Terry but, like a parent, made it clear he was just very, very disappointed.
Had this happened at club level, Terry might have been dropped from the team, fined a week’s wages and maybe even shown the door at the end of the season. With England, Capello’s hands are tied, particularly with the absence of Rio Ferdinand and Ledley King. Dropping Terry would leave only Upson (in woeful form), Dawson (untested at international level) and Jamie ‘at least it wasn’t Liverpool’ Carragher at centre back, forcing the England manager to be unusually forgiving. Ironically, Terry’s comments were prompted by a question about Nicolas Anelka, his Chelsea teammate who was sent home from the French team for privately undermining his manager. In that respect, England’s self-professed ‘big personality in the dressing room’ can consider himself fortunate to have got off lightly.
Going into the World Cup, a squad of 23 at the disposal of each manager seems generous and offers cover for most eventualities. What this tournament has highlighted is that the FIFA ruling that no changes may be made after a team’s initial match gives the players themselves a significant amount of power during the tournament. If the players refuse to train, there are no reserves threatening to take their places. Indeed, if there is a dispute between player and manager, only the latter can be replaced during the tournament. You wonder if the Fédération Française de Football weighed up the relative merits of sending home head coach Raymond Domenech, a lame duck before the tournament even began, ahead of Anelka.
Ultimately, Fabio Capello’s unusually careful approach has averted any imminent split in the England camp. The dismissal of Anelka proved catastrophic for the French by splitting the team entirely from the management. The English FA would have been desperate to avoid a similar embarrassment during the first real test of its Capello project. It remains to be seen whether Capello’s advice to his former captain will have been heeded by players of other nations considering a similar revolt, particularly among the Italian squad who, like England, laboured to two draws in their opening matches.
Azzuri coach Marcello Lippi even directly addressed the English problems, saying “I have read that Capello is worried about the fear of his players in their attitude towards this competition. I wouldn't like that to happen to us too.” Lippi hopes that by fully utilising the strengths of all his squad members, he can resolve any mental problems within the team, something Fabio Capello may consider given the lacklustre displays by those he has picked so far. Both men will know, however, that the best cure of all is concluding their group matches with a convincing win. Nothing less will do.
Top post matey!
I completely agree that we are starting to see more player power. I am looking forward to reading what Evra has to say about what happened in the France camp. The Terry press conference was too candid and it could have led to bigger problems, and I agree that if it was at club level you'd likely see the player be dropped for a game or two or possibly being shown the door for questioning the manager and airing obvious personal grievances from fellow team members in public without their consent.
If that had been a Man Utd player talking out in that fashion during a season, he'd be benched and gathering splinters until the summer where he'd be sold off. I can understand the England frustration though, the latest manager who the nation has pinned their hopes on changing things ultimately repeating the same mistakes of past managers and producing the same turgid displays.
Caporegime
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What, you are making a heck of a lot of assumptions, a heck of a lot, and all rubbish frankly.
Anelka's dismissal had NOTHING to do with the crap in the team. The players have ALL made it crystal clear they hate the manager, the country and everyone in the world has thought the manager is a joke for many years, only his best friend Platini has been keeping him in a job. The meltdown was ALWAYS going to happen.
A team that for years has hated the manager, has been embarassed in many many games, with players ridiculed in the press by the manager, picked out, dropped, told they aren't good enough.
Without Anelka being sent home the team, with one draw and one loss was ALWAYS going to go through a crisis, if it wasn't around Anelka, the FFA's latest in a long line of awful decisions backing a manager fired, useless and hated, the players would have made it about Henry's lack of use, or the temperature of the hot tub at the hotel.
Likewise, player power, people are talking rubbish, players have striked before to change the wage structures in world football, players have all the power, have always had all the power and will always have all the power.
It was player power that changed the wage limit decades ago and player power that causes big moves and big change every season.
Nothing Terry did threatened to create the same kind of implosion in the England camp, and what he did, worked, which people are gladly forgetting.
A team to scared to actually bring this up with him normally, and playing like a nervous bunch of nancy boys, after Terry talking to the press Capello reacted, but made sweeping changes, stopped making the players overly nervous with the stupid late team announcements and also Capello realised that even as players back tracked and withdrew support from Terry, that they did all have issues and most resolved around being nervous, bored and unable to relax and again Capello made massive changes to his ultra strict regime.
As has been already said, this HAS happened at club level, Terry and other Chelsea players at times of crisis/poor performance had a frank discussion with the manager to try and fix things and its worked. At the end of the day, frank open communication works better than scaring your players/squad into doing what you want and being to scared to tell you whats not working for them.
Terry spoke out, the manager as a direct result made changes and half the problems stopped being problems, and you think its likely a player would be shipped out at the end of the season for such a terrible act, because you can't possible errm.... talk to your manager, because players shouldn't have any power at all, and somehow this all is proof of players having more and more power than they used to..... rubbish.
Lets not forget that Gallas did the SAME thing, acted like a captain, forced the manager to see things that apparently he wasn't listening to in private, the manager over reacted, dropped him, had the worst game of the season, brought him back in and made some changes behind the scene and the team had a marked improvement in form and with several problems fixed.
What you are actually seeing, and failing to notice, is players who care for the club and are willing to speak out and probably suffer consequences, for the good of the team, and the two times I've seen it happen recently, its worked both times and the manager has had to eat crow over the whole thing. Yes you're right at club level Terry MIGHT have been dropped for a game, not if its a decent manager who actually wanted to listen to the advice his captain was giving though.
Personally I want more players willing to talk about problems and how to fix them, rather than a bunch of players to scared of losing starting places and sponsporship deals to talk honestly who prefer to pretend everything is fine.
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Caporegime
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Caporegime
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Clichy would become their starting LB then?
Caporegime
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Well Thuram is saying one thing, who knows what really happened, if the manager is just being a complete **** then I don't see a problem with backing a player being made a scapegoat by an incompetant manager.
Still waiting on this Evra tell all interview, starting to think someones got him to shut up, he said it would only be a few days.
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