World Cup Draw Thread *spoilers*

[Tummy]

They got to the final here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_CONCACAF_Gold_Cup

and got spanked by Mexico 5-0.

Of course Slovenia could cause an upset. So could all the teams. This isn't a Brazil - North Korea gulf.

The point is that there are much harder groups. Germany should win their group for example, but that doesn't mean they couldn't get beaten by the other 3 decent sides.

I'm sure they played Spain? Recently and beat them quite easily?

USA are a good team, I'm of the opinion that no game will be easy in the World Cup, teams will all be well motivated and will up their game.

Nobody knows much about Noth Korea either.

 

[Tummy]

I'd take any chance of knocking Germany out the bloody world cup. Especially a historically weaker team.

Who's a historically weaker team?

You could give 10-1 odds that the US will beat Spain in a rematch and I wouldn't take it.

Erm... alright ?

The USA have beaten Spain recently ? have they not?

No one is underestimating anyone. Similarly, no one (apart from you) is overestimating anyone either.

You asked why people are confident of beating USA. I'm pretty damn confident.

I'm not overestimating anyone? I don't expect the USA game to be easy, nor do I expect the two other teams to roll over? All the teams that have got to the World Cup are good, some better then others but none the less.

And I'm pleased your confident.

Ask Americans if they're confident of even getting a draw out of that game. If they don't expect a draw, we should expect a draw. Simple.

What?

If they don't expect a draw are they expecting a win? or to lose? Both sides should be going in to the opening game thinking "we can win here".

 

[Tummy]

The German team. If we're to ever knock them out the world cup, its now.

I think the German team are a good side, They have a habbit of playing very well in big games. They're historically a good World Cup team, they've done better in World Cups then England have for example.

Doesn't make them a strong side.

We were destroyed by Spain and were a strong side?

I think you're looking for an arguement that isn't really there.

I don't expect any easy games at the World Cup, I think the USA will be a tough opening game (I'd much rather play them second or third).

So what if Wigan were destroyed by Spurs?

 

[Tummy]

England are 4/7 on to win the game against USA.

England should beat the USA. No amount of excuses about how they beat Spain or are a "decent" side is acceptable.

England "should" of qualified for the Euro's? We were playing a "decent" side then?

Fans go into the match, hoping to win. Expecting to win is a different matter.

If both sides expecting to win, then one or both sides are deluding themselves. If one expects to lose and yet the other doesn't expect to win, then again something is going wrong.

What? There is nothing wrong with two sides going in to a game expecting to win.

Lets go back to your original comment.

What should I be expecting? A draw? Because the odds for a draw are pretty good if that's the most likely outcome.

You've said you're expecting England to beat the USA? ...

I've said I'm not as confident, I don't expect England to beat the USA, nor do I expect them to lose, nor do I expect them to draw. I don't know what will happen, I'm not as confident as other England fans.

 

[Tummy]

Again. I'm not saying the USA can't win. I'm not saying for example that its impossible for Tottenham to win the Premiership.

You just said that England "should" win, and that because the USA are "decent" doesn't count for anything. England lost a game to a decent side that they "should" of won.

I don't get what you're getting at.

Two teams rationally expecting to win the same game, is incorrect. In betting you'd make arbitrage profits from both sets of fans.

Football isn't all about betting

Two teams can expect to win the same game, two teams can't win the same game.

Impossible. You MUST have an expectation. Unless you expect the match to never be played, one of those must happen. Therefore, you must have an expectation of one of them happening.

Only time you wouldn't know which will happen is when they are all as likely as each other. But then, state that.

No. I don't have an expectation, I know full well that the game will be played.

I have no expectation of one of anything happening. I know the game can end one of three ways for England.

I'm not as confident as other people on this thread about England beating the USA. I don't expect England to win / lose or draw. I have no idea what will happen in that game.

I actually have no idea what point you're trying to make so I'm going to bed. You just seem to want to argue.

 

[Tummy]

it is classed as a upset though , it doesnt prove there a good team. I picked this from the same list of upsets.

2001 - In the Copa America 2001, the last minute replacement team, Honduras, defeated Brazil 2–0, in the quarter-finals

USA beat Spain and aren't a good side?
England lose to Spain and are a good side?

 

[Tummy]

USA beat Spain, USA will win World Cup, praise prophet Tummy.

tool

@ ghosty, I still don't know who will win, England should be looking for a minium of 6 points from that group, same goes for the USA. I'm not as confident about beating the USA as everyone else.

I'm not dissmissing the USA as been a walk over, like many are, and have pointed out that they beat a very good Spain team infact the same Spain that thumped England.

 

[Tummy]

Very droll, well done.

Reciting the fact that the USA beat Spain is pointless, unless you're going to try and conclude that it's a true indication of their skill level, rather than one of football's anomalies, but obviously you seem to think it's an indication of their true skill, otherwise you wouldn't place such weight on it and try and argue it so vehemently, so I assume you expect them to win the world cup as well? if they're good enough to beat Spain, they should win easily.

Oh, I forgot, you don't expect any result from any match.

ooo very good.

No I've said that the USA beat Spain, the same Spain that beat England.

Yet somehow England should easily beat the USA ?

The USA are a good side, I don't know which way it will go.

As for not expecting any result from any match, you haven't read my posts properly, England should beat the two other teams in the group, giving them a minium of 6 points + whatever happens against the USA.

Tool.

 

[Tummy]

I know it's shocking that I'm not of the opinion England are the best team ever and are going to win the World Cup.

Great shame.

 

[Tummy]

No I completely agree, you can't judge a team by a single game. The USA played well and beat a good Spain, yet England lost to Spain but are a better side?

However, The USA are a good side and won't be an easy game, would much rather of played them 2nd or 3rd, as that could give us some momentum.

A minium of 6 points + whatever England get against America from that Group.

 

[Tummy]

USA weren't lucky to beat Spain, they deserved it on the day. That said I think England should still beat the USA going solely on the abilities of the players from both teams. The USA have a far better understanding of the word team though and that's what they could use to beat England, even though they are somewhat limited in terms of quality players.

Carful there Jakeke people might start to think you want USA to win the World Cup.

 

[Tummy]

To be honest who cares, England or USA will not win the world cup anyway, qtr final teams at best.

Probably true.

 

[Tummy]

I actually want Ghana or Ivory Coast to win the World Cup

Although I think a European team will actually win it. I think England have a real good chance of it this time with the draw they have.

I don't think England have a good chance, or a better chance then any other year.

There are far better international sides, I couldn't see England beating Spain / Brasil for example. I think England will get past the group stage quite easily, but then struggle.

 

[Tummy]

On their day, England are capable of beating any other team in the world cup. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that doesn't know football.

There's only a few teams capable of winning the world cup, with England definitely being one of them.

I've been watching a lot of football for a lot of years and I'm willing to say now that England won't win the world cup because not only are they outside of the top few teams in the world, they are a long, long way away

This.

The games against Brasil and Spain showed the giant gulf in class between both sides. England don't have **** on those sides.

Brasil, Spain, Holland, Argentina (if you remember a few World Cups ago, Brasil struggled to qualify only to win the World Cup) if they get going.

Brasil / Spain showed that they're better then England at everything.

 

[Tummy]

Negative or just honest?

Brasil / Spain showed that with minimal effort they can completely controll and destroy England. It was almost embarassing in both games to see England completely dominated by two sides that were only putting in half the effort.

 

[Tummy]

I'm not being particularly negative, by saying I think Brazil or Spain will win it, is that being positive or just realistic??

When I watched Brazil/Spain vs England I just saw England play teams that are at a completely different level of football and teamwork

It was scary because they didn't seem to need to look where they were passing. It seemed like they just knew the ball would find a team mate.

Barca do this a lot, it must be amazing having such faith in each other.

 

[Tummy]

No, I'm writing them out based on performances of all top international teams since the Euro's. England haven't been good enough to dream about being the world's best.

This.

England are a million miles behind the likes of Spain, Brasil, Portugal, Argentina ect ect in terms of football.

England even at full strength lack the ability, vision, passing, movement and technique to challenge the best teams in the World.

We are like a lot of other teams, nearly men.

 

[Tummy]

Basically we're hoping on a whole lot of luck if we were going to win the tournament, Spain will be going in concentrating on their own game. I suppose that's the difference.

We could win it if like all the good teams die between now and the Final.

 

[Tummy]

Lucky? to what? only lose by 1 and 2 goals to Brasil and Spain?

Greece didn't win the World Cup.

Italy, were lucky to get past Oz (iirc a penatly decision that was harsh) but Italy were a very good, well organised side that year.

Brasil, will have a tough group to play in, but the flip side is they should be able to beat easily all the teams on current form and will be going in to the latter stages with some serious momentum and confidence.

England & USA to go through, but much like the Champions League it's all a formaility. It gets really tough from then on.

 

[Tummy]

On current form? W2 D1 L1
Sure they were not competitive games but you can't bring up Brasil's win over England if you disregard Brasils past 4 games

The African nations have an advantage because they are playing competitive games in the African cup of Nations so as long as Ivory Coast players can stay fit then I give them a good chance of qualifying from that group and I really wouldn't be surprised to see Brasil going out in the groups.

Current form, been that they've conceded the least goals in South American qualifing? iirc.

Easily the best side, and easily as good as Spain at the moment