World of Warcraft - your experiences nowadays?

.Lethal said:
Stop blaming devs for the state of the game, they don't have a say in the games direction. It's management and people like Ion Hazzikostas.
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Yeah, but don't say that he doesn't play the game. The problem with putting Gurgthock in charge is that he's an old school player who was (and I think still is) the GM of Elitist Jerks, whose forum was where all the top WOW theorycrafting was done in the late 2000s. And trust me, the name is not ironic - the standing forum rule was to ban people who asked for advice or made an assertion without evidence. When you put someone in charge who thinks that Scarab Lord was a good idea because he is one, you're going to get a lot of gating and grinding.
 
Teaf said:
No it doesn't. This isn't the quest for facts and these are opinions that don't realistically need to be validated or reasoned. My opinion is that, often, ex-player's opinions are negatively warped by nostalgia and that the game is still worth playing. Best way to find out? Play it.

Not really sure what else I could explain further or where my position stands when I mentioned it already in my original post that it's my opinion that; a) the game is still worth playing, and b) it's pretty common to look back and want bygone days because of fond memories. I do it myself, but it can often affect people's opinion negatively.
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I never asked for facts, I suggested you give an opinion you hold of the game rather than spout the nostalgic nonsense that filled MOST of your post that current players have been using as a defence mechanism since Catacysm :)

The music
The art, the incredibly detailed zones that look better than ever.
Raids are better tuned than ever, mechanics are more complex and challenging.
Less bugs than in the past
Changes to Dungeons and how Diablo's Rift system inspired Mythic+ that many love/dislike.
Cinematics

You didn't touch on any of it.

Your post shows that you're apart of the current toxic WoW community other people have talked about, you got challenged on your opinion and immediately got upset and defensive. You took a dump on former players for having an opinion for nostalgic reasons but can't handle it when we call you out for that behaviour.

JeditOjanen said:
Yeah, but don't say that he doesn't play the game. The problem with putting Gurgthock in charge is that he's an old school player who was (and I think still is) the GM of Elitist Jerks, whose forum was where all the top WOW theorycrafting was done in the late 2000s. And trust me, the name is not ironic - the standing forum rule was to ban people who asked for advice or made an assertion without evidence. When you put someone in charge who thinks that Scarab Lord was a good idea because he is one, you're going to get a lot of gating and grinding.
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Mate I never went into any detail about Ion other than mentioning his name. Most old school raiders will have heard of his WoW history before working for Blizzard. I also don't think it's his decision alone to time gate content, I think it's a bit simplistic to think it's a 1 man band that makes these decisions in such a large company.
 
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.Lethal said:
I never asked for facts, I suggested you give an opinion you hold of the game rather than spout the nostalgic nonsense that filled MOST of your post that current players have been using as a defence mechanism since Catacysm :)The music, The art, the incredibly detailed zones that look better than ever., Raids are better tuned than ever, mechanics are more complex and challenging., Less bugs than in the past, Changes to Dungeons and how Diablo's Rift system inspired Mythic+ that many love/dislike. Cinematics

You didn't touch on any of it.
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I did give an opinion and it needed no more elaboration and it was commenting on how time warps opinions... I'm not sure what you want exactly? It looks like you wanted an in-depth written overview on every aspect of the game given your list? Should I include cited sources and references for my opinions in the future and make them at least 1000 words? :p

.Lethal said:
Your post shows that you're apart of the current toxic WoW community other people have talked about, you got challenged on your opinion and immediately got upset and defensive. You took a dump on former players for having an opinion for nostalgic reasons but can't handle it when we call you out for that behaviour.
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Who's upset? Or defensive? I'm part of a 'toxic community' ? What are you on about?

This is what I wrote:
Also players, especially ex-players, tend to look back on their golden era's - whether it be vanilla, TBC, WotLK or even later - with 5 to 15 years of rose-tinted goggles and fond memories where nothing will likely ever live up to that experience again and often dissuade returning or new players, but there's still plenty of fun to be had and as aforesaid, you'll get out of what you put in.
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Where am I taking a "dump on former players" ? It's extremely common to look back with rose-tinted goggles on past events where factors like time/nostalgia are going to warp an opinion (both positively and negatively) - the so-called "nostalgic nonsense" as you put it; even I do it and it's not a fault of anyone it's just what happens over time, therefore listening to opinions needs to be taken with some grain of salt (including my own). Hell, even my own opinion may be biased as I still play it. As mentioned before, the best way for anyone to find out is to experience it themselves.
 
Yeah, the general populace, i.e. I am referring to your random pick up group person who's an ass-hat, everyone knows the type I'm on about. I thought that was obvious from what I wrote, clearly not... and for some reason you're immediately putting me in that category because you think I'm upset :p OK mate, sure, carry on.
 
Any game that can't be 100% completed solo is a bad game.

MMOs prove exactly why - If the player base dwindles you can never fully play the game. Most MMOs nowadays you can be spending hours trying to fill a group to do one of the crappy raids, which has always singe handedly been the most unfun aspects in any video game.

'But I like playing with others!' - All MMOs prove this is false because given the option people will prefer to play them alone. Its like picking me for your group assignment or sports team, you are automatically going to lose / get 2 grades lower because I suck at everything. Other players are the single worst aspect of any multiplayer game.
 
BallistixOnZ490 said:
Any game that can't be 100% completed solo is a bad game.
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I disagree with that statement, its too much of a blanket statement, as just two examples..Deep Rock Galactic and GTFO are both great games but neither can be completed solo.

I'd equally disagree with the blanket statement that people prefer to play MMOs alone. Ultima Online, Everquest 1 and Dark Age of Camelot were the best MMOs ever imo and all 3 of those were so strong because of their community. Players back then loved to just sit and chat in between pulls, grouping up, multiple groups in dungeons side by side instead of instanced dungeons , things were more social, partly because of the mechanics of those MMOs but also partly because the mentality of MMO players was much different back then. As a result, the people I met back then, 20 years ago, and still play with today, are very group up orientated rather than playing by themselves. Theres an extremely noticeable difference between MMOers from 1997-2008 and the MMOers from 2008 onwards
 
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Tombstone said:
Well this thread went Barrens chat pretty swiftly :D
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Teaf said:
Aye, sorry about that, and to OP for derailing the thread somewhat.
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Forgiven dude :)

*light hearted* - As the Barrens have now been mentioned, shall we all meet at the Crossroads?! I was never much of a PvP-er, but I remember that Crossroads (or just "XR") was the place for open-world PVP.

Tombstone said:
Players back then loved to just sit and chat in between pulls, grouping up, multiple groups in dungeons side by side instead of instanced dungeons , things were more social, partly because of the mechanics of those MMOs but also partly because the mentality of MMO players was much different back then.
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WoW was later on than Everquest etc, but I did enjoy the social aspect there which was what kept me addicted to WoW for a few years, alongside the raiding. None of the people that I've met in WoW, later IRL play it anymore, but I still write to a couple of them daily and still occasionally meet up. So I'm still getting a bit out of game now, even as an ex-player.
 
Pawnless Endgame said:
WoW was later on than Everquest etc, but I did enjoy the social aspect there which was what kept me addicted to WoW for a few years, alongside the raiding. None of the people that I've met in WoW, later IRL play it anymore, but I still write to a couple of them daily and still occasionally meet up. So I'm still getting a bit out of game now, even as an ex-player.
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Yeah its that social aspect that makes gaming just so good. Take MMOs for example, I've been playing them now for 24 years and I'm still in contact with my guildmates from 24 years ago, we've flown the world to meet up with each other multiple times, we've met up in Los Angeles, Indianapolis, Stockholm, Rome, Vienna, Paris, London. Even outside of MMOs, the guys and girls that I regularly play with on things like Battlefield, Hell Let Loose, Borderlands, Dying Light, Anno 1800, Civilization 5 and 6 etc are really what make those games so special for me. I mean sure I can play Borderlands alone, or Vermintide 2 with bots or I can play the AI in Anno or the Civ games, or run around by myself on Factorio or Satisfactory and that makes them 8/10 games but playing those games in multiplayer with friends elevates those games to the next level imo. Vermintide 2 or Total Warhammer or Factorio is just miles better with friends than with bots or against the AI.
 
Tombstone said:
Yeah its that social aspect that makes gaming just so good. Take MMOs for example, I've been playing them now for 24 years and I'm still in contact with my guildmates from 24 years ago, we've flown the world to meet up with each other multiple times, we've met up in Los Angeles, Indianapolis, Stockholm, Rome, Vienna, Paris, London. Even outside of MMOs, the guys and girls that I regularly play with on things like Battlefield, Hell Let Loose, Borderlands, Dying Light, Anno 1800, Civilization 5 and 6 etc are really what make those games so special for me. I mean sure I can play Borderlands alone, or Vermintide 2 with bots or I can play the AI in Anno or the Civ games, or run around by myself on Factorio or Satisfactory and that makes them 8/10 games but playing those games in multiplayer with friends elevates those games to the next level imo. Vermintide 2 or Total Warhammer or Factorio is just miles better with friends than with bots or against the AI.
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But most of those games are optionally multiplayer, you can play with others if you choose to.

Forcing however little or much player base to spend hours LFG just to play the game is a BS design.

Also your experience of flying all over the world to meet your fellow gamers is a vast minority of gamers that would actually do this, your anecdotal examples don't apply to the majority who simply want to be able to turn a game on and play it with zero fuss.

Tombstone said:
I'd equally disagree with the blanket statement that people prefer to play MMOs alone. Ultima Online, Everquest 1 and Dark Age of Camelot ...
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And all of those and such games are now dead. A game with a finite timespan due to reliance on an active playerbase is a flawed design. Games that can be picked up and played by anyone on their own continue to live on and remain active among players returning to them for nostalgia.

Even if you have people you regularly play with, you are also then reliant on having to play at the same time and around each others schedules. If you can't play the game inbetween that or when other people simply arent interested / available, then what's the point?

IMHO MMOs are the single worst genre of video games for the fact that they cannot be played if you don't have people to play them with.
 
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BallistixOnZ490 said:
Also your experience of flying all over the world to meet your fellow gamers is a vast minority of gamers that would actually do this, your anecdotal examples don't apply to the majority who simply want to be able to turn a game on and play it with zero fuss.
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Is it really? I've also met people and travelled to other countries to meet people I've met online. It's not 2000, social interaction online and outside of it is more commonplace than ever.
 
.Lethal said:
Is it really? I've also met people and travelled to other countries to meet people I've met online. It's not 2000, social interaction online and outside of it is more commonplace than ever.
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Yes most gamers don't fly all over the world to meet other gamers, considering that over 90% of people play video games.

The proportion of that who do would be more like what, 1 or 2%?
 
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