worth changing to dual loop?

To be honest circa 70 on 1.47 vcore on 100% load are not bad temps with 2 470's. Your issue here is your vcore not necessarily your rad load although more rad is going to help to some degree but I doubt moving to dual loop will help, in fact I expect your gpu temps will go up and your cpu will stay the same.

Read this as an explantion as to why: http://www.swiftech.com/Resources/White_Papers/Dual Loop versus Single.pdf
 
recently i moved from 1 single loop using a ddc-18 pro to a dual loop feeding from the same res using 2 d5's.

i've been fiddling around with these loops for ages trying to get a good balance of flow with temps, and it seems using a single res with 2 loops has worked pretty well for me.

i get a few degrees of both gpu and cpu temps since i've moved to this system.

cpu loop: res -> d5 -> ek ram block -> pa120.3 -> heat killer 3.0 -> res
gpu loop: res -> d5 -> 5970 -> 5870 -> pa120.3 -> ek ud7 vrm -> ek nb/sb -> res

i tried using a d5 in a single loop and found flow through all of that was cack, same with using a ddc 18w. using the dual-split loop i've still got good flow and decent temps as the water is kinda using both rads anyway, i've just got the flow up a bit to help push the water through all those blocks :)
 
this is a post made by Gabe [CEO of Swiftech] over at XtremeSystems.

this guy sells pumps, so for him to say that buying more pumps isn't required means that its certainly not the best way of doing things.

I have been on single loop since i read this.

Dual Loop versus Single, the facts

The following series of tests represent Part II of the white paper published here

In this article, the question we wanted to answer was:

Are dual (dedicated) loops better than single loops?


Equipment:

Loop 1: MCR320 Drive radiator, with built-in MCP355 pump, and an Apogee XT waterblock; the loop uses ½ lines. The fans are Gentle Typhoon’s (D1225C12B5AP-15) running at 1850 rpm and rated at 28 dB.
Loop 2: MCR220 Drive radiator, with built-in MCP355 pump,Gentle Typhoon fans (same model) and 1/2" lines.
All components are connected to the loop with CPC quick-disconnect fittings; they are fairly restrictive, but the time they save in changing setups overshadows any other considerations.
The CPU is an early Ci7 920, Revision C0/C1 stepping 4.
The Graphic cards are (2) EVGA GTX470 ***
The Motherboard is a Gigabyte EX58-UD3R, and the OS is Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit.


Methodology:

The CPU maximum stable overclock was well established, since we have been using this same 920 ever since its introduction. It is 4095 Mhz (Intel Turbo mode on, and HT enabled), at 1.424v (after droop).
The GPU’s maximum stable overclock was established in the previous graphics tests using Furmark in extreme burn mode at 1920x1050 for a minimum of two hours, and further validated by running 3D Marks Vantage.
Max stable overclock for 2 cards in SLI was 825 MHz core and 1000 MHz memory, @1.087 Volts.


We conducted two series of tests, reflecting the following hardware configurations:

Series I, with the Ci7 920@ 4.1Gb and (2) EVGA GTX470 *** in SLI @825/1000, and
Series II, with the Ci7 920@ 4.1Gb and (1) EVGA GTX470 *** @825/1000.


Within each series, we tested three cooling loop configurations:

Dual Loop with MCR320 Drive dedicated to cooling the CPU, and MCR220 Drive dedicated to cooling the GPU(s)
Dual Loop with MCR220 Drive dedicated to cooling the CPU, and MCR320 Drive dedicated to cooling the GPU(s)
Single loop combining MCR320 Drive, MCR220 Drive, CPU, and parallelly linked GPU's, in series


Within each loop configuration, we simulated three load scenarios consisted in:

CPU load tests: In order to maintain consistency with previous test data, we ran our usual 8 instances of BurnK6. We logged the temperature results at 2 seconds intervals using CoreTemps. The average temperature of the 4 cores is reported.
GPU load tests: We used Furmark in extreme burning mode, windowed in 1920x1050, post processing off to enable 100% load to both GPU’s in SLI configuration, and logged the temperature results at 2 seconds intervals with GPUZ.
Combined CPU + GPU load test: We used (7) instances of Burn K6 + Furmark in extreme burning mode - The combination of these two benchmarks placed ~100% load on all four CPU cores, and a load on both GPU cores varying between 98 and 100%.
Graphics cards were hydraulically linked in parallel, as a result of the findings outlined in part I of this article.


The test results are compiled and summarized in two groups: Temps under load in typical computer use, and Temps under load in Extreme computer use.

Typical computer use reflects the assumption that at the time of this writing, CPU maximum load and GPU maximum load are in the vast majority of the cases mutually exclusive of each other. In other words, the majority of games placing a heavy load on the GPU's use very few CPU resources, whereas the majority of CPU intensive applications use very little GPU resources.
The extreme computer use scenario reflects the currently rare occurrences where both CPU and GPU(s) are under maximum load.
Comparing these two groups provides an insight on the respective device load ratios relative to the heat exchangers and may provide guidance for further system configurations.


Environmental Temperature recording:

Air temperature: each fan was equipped with a type T Thermocouples (accurate at +/- 0.1c) at the inlet, and the average of the 3 values is reported.
Coolant temperature was measured at the radiator inlet with a Type T thermocouple (accurate at +/- 0.1°C).


Series 1 test results, CPU + SLI configuration:





Analysis

Under typical computer use, the above test data suggests as a general rule that users would not benefit from setting up dedicated loops for CPU and GPU. Serializing pumps in the same loop also adds a redundancy factor that dedicated loops cannot provide. With superior reliability and lower temperatures at both CPU and GPU levels, single loops appear to win hands down.

Under extreme computer use, this setup recorded a notable advantage at the CPU temperature level for the dual loop, counterbalanced by the opposite effect at the GPU level. This extreme environment uncovered the critical importance of the respective load ratios generated by CPU class devices vs. GPU class devices, relative to the heat exchangers to which they are connected. Clearly, a CPU generating 150 Watts solely dedicated to a triple radiator will cool substantially better than when mixed with another 400 watts generated by two GPU's even with a second dual radiator in the loop. Jedi Masters would say, "we need to bring balance to the force here", and they would be right.

We could define a simple mathematical method to properly configure a system accounting for loads, but that will be for another article. For now, we can simply illustrate the above in real life testing by removing one of the GPU's from the system. It has for effect to balance the heat load generated by CPU device more evenly against that of the GPU device and demonstrates how load ratios affects the results:





What we see above is that even under extreme use, the dual loop has all but lost its performance advantage against the single loop. Incidentally, the same type of trend could have also been obtained by adding a second CPU in the loop instead of removing a GPU.

Conclusions:

Under extreme performance scenarios, and from a pure performance standpoint, dual loops versus single loop are neither better nor worse, under the strict condition that the load ratios are evenly balanced.
Under the most commonly encountered loads though, single loops do win.

Under both of the above use scenarios, single loops also win from a reliability standpoint because of pump redundancy.

The choice is yours to make.
 
bugger,i've ordered another res now.would adding another rad in the single loop help?i have a spare black ice stealth 240,what difference could i expect if i added push/pull instead of just push
 
Push/pull will help a bit depending on the fans/rads and adding an extra 240 into the loop will help a bit more than swopping to a push/pull config.
 
thanks for all the comments guys,but as i've already ordered another res,i think i'll try dual loop.at least i can monitor the temp of the cpu and gpu's seperately.might put the 360 on the cpu and put the 2 240's on the gpu's
 
right.i've finished building the dual loops.i decided to use the 360 rad on the gpu's with a ddc 18w pump.i overclocked both gtx470's to 800/1600/1800 with volts at 1087.benched with heaven and got temps of 51/49,so happy with that.however my 2600k is overclocked to 4.7 with vcore of 1.47.i setup the cpu loop with another ddc 18w pump and used another 360 rad(xspc rs360). i thought a 360 would be more than enough to cope with the cpu on it's own but i'm getting temps up to 81 now in prime95????? whats that all about??
 
right.i've finished building the dual loops.i decided to use the 360 rad on the gpu's with a ddc 18w pump.i overclocked both gtx470's to 800/1600/1800 with volts at 1087.benched with heaven and got temps of 51/49,so happy with that.however my 2600k is overclocked to 4.7 with vcore of 1.47.i setup the cpu loop with another ddc 18w pump and used another 360 rad(xspc rs360). i thought a 360 would be more than enough to cope with the cpu on it's own but i'm getting temps up to 81 now in prime95????? whats that all about??

You should have kept the one loop mate in all honesty.
 
1. Whats the ambient temperature?
2. rs360 needs high speed fans to cool effectively.
3. vcore of 1.47 is mad high = high temps
4. Whats the airflow directions?
5. GPU's respond much more effectively to WC than CPU's
 
1.ambient is about 23c
2.i have 3 Alpenfohn 120 wingboost fans on the rs360
3.i know the vcore is high but hey ho.lol
4.the 360 in the roof is pushing out the top,the 360 in the front is pushing out the front
5.even so,a 360 on the cpu alone would surely be overkill????
 
vec you may see some benefit reversing your air flow, that is bringing cool air in from outside. Other than that your issue is that vcore, as an example I run mine at 1.37 for 4.6 on 3 360's, this uses 9 sharkoon se running at 450 rpm there is also 2 gtx 480s in there and temps under ibt are 60. Gaming load is 50 deg on the cpu and about 48 on the gpus.
 
with the same vcore on a single loop with 360 and 240 rads i was getting around max of 74c. i have now changed back to single loop but with 2 360 rads and i'm still getting 81c.wtf.the only thing i changed now is a bigger second rad and using thermochill ec6 instead of deionised water
 
as pointed out by some what you need is push/pull sucking cold in from the back through the rad into the machine...if its a triple rad 6 fans with good static pressure.
use something like mx-4 on the block also.....pushing warm pc case air through a rad is just daft, doesn't work at all as your results show

EDIT deionised water dropped my temps a few degrees also when I changed from feser fluid..id go back to deionised
 
i changed from deionised to ec6 because i have all nickel and i was worried about the corrosion thing going on about EK blocks.i thought it did'nt matter about the air in the case as it should be cool any way not having air cooled.as i said,the setup is now exactly the same as before,with all fans going in the same direction as before.the only difference is the fact i know have 2 360's instead of a 360 and 240.so you would have thought i would get a few degrees off from before???.and i'm using ice diamond24 which should be as good as mx-4
 
It's your high v.core pure and simple.

It's not fluid related. Your temps aren't going to lower by adding 6 fans in push/pull. It's not because youre pulling warm air from the case through the rad. Neither will adding rads help.

High v.core = high temps.
 
i changed from deionised to ec6 because i have all nickel and i was worried about the corrosion thing going on about EK blocks.i thought it did'nt matter about the air in the case as it should be cool any way not having air cooled.as i said,the setup is now exactly the same as before,with all fans going in the same direction as before.the only difference is the fact i know have 2 360's instead of a 360 and 240.so you would have thought i would get a few degrees off from before???.and i'm using ice diamond24 which should be as good as mx-4

if the surface area of the fins is warm then you could have 10 rads in your loop and it wont cool, cool air needs to pass over the fins so it can draw out the heat from the water, if you pass warm air over nothing will happen...
I have a tft 360 rad with 6 noctuas in push/pull and its fantastic.. I used to have a 980x at 4.71 GHz plus a 5970 in my loop it kept the chip at 31 deg and the VGA at 22 deg.....you NEED cool air from outside the case passing over as the bear minimum and preferably push/pull with 6 high static pressure fans for this to work efficiently otherwise what you have is an expensive hot water bottle....do this and I guarantee you will see good results :)
 
if the surface area of the fins is warm then you could have 10 rads in your loop and it wont cool, cool air needs to pass over the fins so it can draw out the heat from the water, if you pass warm air over nothing will happen...
I have a tft 360 rad with 6 noctuas in push/pull and its fantastic.. I used to have a 980x at 4.71 GHz plus a 5970 in my loop it kept the chip at 31 deg and the VGA at 22 deg.....you NEED cool air from outside the case passing over as the bear minimum and preferably push/pull with 6 high static pressure fans for this to work efficiently otherwise what you have is an expensive hot water bottle....do this and I guarantee you will see good results :)

If your theory is correct can you explain why his GPU temps are fine then?
 
If your theory is correct can you explain why his GPU temps are fine then?

mike im not saying his vcore isn't to high because it is and its not helping at all but he hasn't set up his water-cooling right which also isn't helping and by changing all of these issues it will make a difference.... my water-cooled 5970 went from 22deg idle to 28-30 deg on full load so I would say 50 deg + is high
 
i read a lot about watercooling before i set my loop up in the first place.it seemed to me that pulling in air or pushing it out was'nt as important with wc as it is in air cooling.thats why i set it to push air out the case.i also don't want to keep clogging the rads up with dust.i don't want to lower the vcore as it's the lowest it will go at 4.7 and i bought sandybridge to clock right up,otherwise i might as well of stayed with my i7-930.i can't afford to keep buying chips to get a good clocker so i'm stuck with it.however,the issue here is,why was i getting highs of @74c with a 360 and 240, and now getting highs of @81 with 2 360's with the same settings as before????
 
mike im not saying his vcore isn't to high because it is and its not helping at all but he hasn't set up his water-cooling right which also isn't helping and by changing all of these issues it will make a difference.... my water-cooled 5970 went from 22deg idle to 28-30 deg on full load so I would say 50 deg + is high

28-30 on a 5970, or any high end GPU at full load is extraordinarily low, props to you. ;) I've never got close to that - not even in winter.

My GTX480 idles at 38; load while benching furmark = 48, but then I like to run my fans at as low RPM as possible as I WC for silence more than a high overclock and my rig is in a hot and stuffy loft conversion.

I wouldn't say 50+ for 470SLI was high at all.
 
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