Would appreciate your opinion.

[uv]

No i'm not, I have a old X2 4400+ system at 2.6GHz with a 8800GT and know exactly how it performs compared to my Q6600+8800GTX rig. Games are allot more GPU limited then they are CPU lmited these days, as long as you have a half decent dual core system AMD or Intel the performance in games is fairly good.

oh wow, you have both specs to compare, I wish I could do the sa..

oh, wait I can!

My [email protected] absolutely *trounces* my A64 in pretty much every game I've played in the past year. Bioshock, UT3, the Witcher, DIRT - all became much more playable when I switched to C2D and kept the same graphics card.

GT has the best idea.. switch to C2D, and either grab a cheap 880GT later, or wait for the new HD4xxx/9900's. It's pointless upgrading a platform that stopped being manufactured so long ago.

 

[Dark_Angel]

No i'm not, I have a old X2 4400+ system at 2.6GHz with a 8800GT and know exactly how it performs compared to my Q6600+8800GTX rig. Games are allot more GPU limited then they are CPU lmited these days, as long as you have a half decent dual core system AMD or Intel the performance in games is fairly good.

We aren't saying performance is going to suck.

We are saying you will be CPU BOUND and better stuff is coming.

What you are saying is get a card now when better stuff is coming out in a month, and ignore the CPU and get that later.

It hurts my head when people say things like that, when a C2D or Quad system now (which can be had for less than 200 and his old stuff sold to make up for most of it) will last him far longer, and the new range is coming out in a month or so time.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/geforce_8800_gtx_gts_amd_cpu_scaling/page8.asp

Shows the GTX and GTS (the older versions - remember the GT is faster than the old 640 MB GTS) increasing its FPS drastically on faster CPU's. (and they are only on the older A64's, there were no C2D or new AMD systems in the mix I am afraid).

What you are basically telling the OP is this:

"get a new card now, the rest of your stuff is fine, even though the new GPU's are out soon, and you could increase the rest of the performance of your system for very little outlay, and when you do get the new cards watch it be bound by the CPU"

 

[ebilcake]

Damn, I hate these long winded replys so I'm just going to reply to key points.

First of all - don't tell me I said it was slow for general usage. I didn't say that at all.

Well you insinuated that your recommending the system upgrade to increase general performance, sorry if I misunderstood.

Now to continue, the 8800 GT will be slowed down by a system with an FX60. Most people know that a C2D of 3GHZ or so is needed in many cases to push the 8800 cards fully (unless high res or AA).

Well having a C2D at 3GHz definitely helps but it isnt needed to enjoy good performance.

Furthermore, how is a C2D move "a lot more cash"

E2160 45 pounds
Motherboard 50 - 60
4GB 60

Well that system you've llisted is slower at stock, that would only be better when overclocked, did you bother to ask if the guy overclocks? Plus you can pick up a 8800GT for £100-110, that system costs more and my reply was mainly due to system recommendation posted earlier costing £300+

It makes no sense to buy something which will be held back by your current system

Indeed, but either way he does it something will be holding him back, and from my own experience with the same hardware I know the 8800GT performs well enough with that CPU and that the 7950GX2 will struggle in recent games even with a C2D at 3GHz+

 

[Cyber-Mav]

No i'm not, I have a old X2 4400+ system at 2.6GHz with a 8800GT and know exactly how it performs compared to my Q6600+8800GTX rig. Games are allot more GPU limited then they are CPU lmited these days, as long as you have a half decent dual core system AMD or Intel the performance in games is fairly good.

your correct mostly there.
the 2 systems i use for gaming are the opty 170 and x1900xt in my sig, and my media pc which is a [email protected] and 8800gt.
i tried the 8800gt in my opty 170 pc and it ran games just as well as the quad core setup.

however i did notice that on the opty with the 8800gt i was getting fps or around 125fps in games like cod2, where as the quad core setup would net me 160fps with the 8800gt, and best way to cure that was to slap the AA on at 16x to put more strain on the gfx card and take the cpu out of the equation. crysis ran the same on either cpu aslong as the gpu was the same.

only game to show a diffierence for me was supreme commander, the quad core machine deffo showed a higher performance advantage over the opty.

 

[uv]

the 7950GX2 will struggle in recent games even with a C2D at 3GHz+

from http://ut2004.titaninternet.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=268766

*edit* it's a UT3 benchmark..

System Information
Operating system: Microsoft Windows XP
System memory: 2,0 GB
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU @ 2.66GHz
CPU speed: 2660 MHz
Sound system: SoundMAX HD Audio
VGA Information
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2
Memory: 512.0 MB
Driver version: 6.14.0011.6909 (English)
Benchmark Information
Demo: Downtown
Quality: High Quality
Anisotropic filtering: 16×

Resolution: 1600×1200
Score = 68 FPS
Score = 68 FPS
Average score = 68 FPS

again, you're wrong.

The 7950GX2 is perfectly capable of playing modern games, and a C2D upgrade would give a very large performance increase comparatively.

 

[ebilcake]

from http://ut2004.titaninternet.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=268766

The 7950GX2 is perfectly capable of playing modern games, and a C2D upgrade would give a very large performance increase comparatively.

Thats a bad example, there flybys and don't represent gameplay.

My [email protected] absolutely *trounces* my A64 in pretty much every game I've played in the past year. Bioshock, UT3, the Witcher, DIRT - all became much more playable when I switched to C2D and kept the same graphics card.

Of course it does but how does the 7950GX2 perform in the C2D system at 3.2GHz compared to the 8800GT and FX60 system? Thats what's being discussed here. I have both setups right here and I play them regularly.

What you are saying is get a card now when better stuff is coming out in a month, and ignore the CPU and get that later.

It hurts my head when people say things like that, when a C2D or Quad system now (which can be had for less than 200 and his old stuff sold to make up for most of it) will last him far longer, and the new range is coming out in a month or so time."

Indeed, thats because the 8800GT will provide a better performance boost then a CPU/system upgrade alone, yes I'm aware of how much faster the 8800GT will be with an overclocked C2D, I would recommend the 8800GT now and then in a month or two upgrade the rest of the system, prices will be lower then anyway so he will probably get the money spent on the 8800GT back in savings if hes buys anything decent which he probably will as he has an FX60.

I think we might have to agree to disagree here.

 

[Dark_Angel]

Damn, I hate these long winded replys so I'm just going to reply to key points.

I shall do the same

Well you insinuated that your recommending the system upgrade to increase general performance, sorry if I misunderstood.

Yes, it will increase system performance drastically. As well as gaming performance.

Well having a C2D at 3GHz definitely helps but it isnt needed to enjoy good performance.

It is needed to max a GPU out these days... and with games like Alan Wake (which actually loves quad core let alone slower dual cores)

Well that system you've llisted is slower at stock, that would only be better when overclocked, did you bother to ask if the guy overclocks? Plus you can pick up a 8800GT for £100-110, that system costs more and my reply was mainly due to system recommendation posted earlier costing £300+

Overclocking is pretty damn simple these days, and just about any C2D system will hit the high end 2GHZ with no trouble at all. A stock one will probably be as fast as a FX60. A Quad core will trounce it.

It will cost him more, but better than upgrading a dead system.

Indeed, but either way he does it something will be holding him back, and from my own experience with the same hardware I know the 8800GT performs well enough with that CPU and that the 7950GX2 will struggle in recent games even with a C2D at 3GHz+

Yes it will struggle in recent games - I didn't tell him to keep it. I said wait for the new stuff. Indeed, even if the op replied telling me he is married to the current stuff he has, and if he tries to leave it then the FX60 will kill him in his sleep, I would still tell the OP to wait for the new cards.

The new cards will be out soon. He has a FX60, which he can sell and make some good cash on (939 stuff is selling for HIGH prices these days). Sell the stuff while it is worth something, struggle on with the card he has, and then just simply get something then.

Your way =

+Saves him money
+Better gaming performance now

-Still old CPU
-Better card comes out

My way (well - the way of just about everyone in the thread who has replied)

+Far better overall system performance
+Better Graphics card in the future
+Overall machine will last him far longer

-More cash outlay (probably about 100 more, maybe less depending how much he can get for his FX60)
-HAs to wait a month for truly improved game performance

 

[Dark_Angel]

Of course it does but how does the 7950GX2 perform in the C2D system at 3.2GHz compared to the 8800GT and FX60 system? Thats what's being discussed here. I have both setups right here and I play them regularly.

Yeah, the 7950 will provide less gaming performance now, but I and everyone else are stating that when the new cards come out, he will get a better system for his money tis all.

Indeed, thats because the 8800GT will provide a better performance boost then a CPU/system upgrade alone, yes I'm aware of how much faster the 8800GT will be with an overclocked C2D, I would recommend the 8800GT now and then in a month or two upgrade the rest of the system, prices will be lower then anyway so he will probably get the money spent on the 8800GT back in savings if hes buys anything decent which he probably will as he has an FX60.

I think we might have to agree to disagree here.

Sure, the bottom line is the more opinions the more options the OP has to chose from - which is always a good thing.

 

[Paracelsus]

Um.... no... it won't.

The FX60 doesn't have the grunt. He will be CPU bound, and TBH why get a new card now when he is more desperate to get a better system together.

He won't be CPU bound unless he plays at 640x480 with no AA/AF....

 

[Dark_Angel]

He won't be CPU bound unless he plays at 640x480 with no AA/AF....

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/geforce_8800_gtx_gts_amd_cpu_scaling/page13.asp

I refer you once again to this graph...

Besides, what I am saying is that waiting, getting the new gen GPU and upgrading the CPU will lead to better performance overall.

 

[Paracelsus]

That graph goes against your point lol.

There is barely a difference between CPUs in those games, even comparing a 3800+ to an FX62 in the worst case example of CoD2, the FPS goes from 67 to 78.

Hardly worth buying a new mobo and CPU.

I went from a 1950XT to a 8800GTX with the same cpu, performance doubled in STALKER and ranged from 2x to 5x as good in Crysis, which went from being playable at medium 0xAA to playable at High with 4xAA or Very High with 0xaa.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/stalker_cpu_performance/page4.asp

You mention Alan Wake, fair point perhaps but who knows because it's not even out yet!

 

[Cyber-Mav]

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/geforce_8800_gtx_gts_amd_cpu_scaling/page13.asp

I refer you once again to this graph...

Besides, what I am saying is that waiting, getting the new gen GPU and upgrading the CPU will lead to better performance overall.

think iv lost the plot here since that graph actually goes against your point.
look at the charts, regardless of cpu the performance is the same across the board untill you swap out to a more powerful card only then is there a difference.

only game which really depends on cpu power is supream commander, and its clearly evident in that. the fx60 is more than adequate for gameing even using a 8800gtx sli setup with it.

 

[Dark_Angel]

It actually shows there is an improvement in the game, with a better CPU.

Small perhaps, but with more games now becoming increasingly CPU intensive (alan wake, unreal and so on) the gap increases.

Either way, the point is the same. Why not get a GPU in a month time, and upgrade the rest of the system.

I guess my point of view is this:

In a months time better GPU's are coming out. He can get better over all system performance boost now for pretty cheap, and then get the newer better performing cards later date.

 

[ebilcake]

"snip"

My take on that, the other points you made go both ways really so removed them to simplify.

My way.

+Saves him money
+Better gaming performance now

-Still old CPU


Your way .

+Improved general performance (never needed an upgrade there really)

-Costs more
-Worse gaming performance

 

[Dark_Angel]

My take on that, the other points you made go both ways really so removed them to simplify.

My way.

+Saves him money
+Better gaming performance now

-Still old CPU


Your way .

+Improved general performance (never needed an upgrade there really)

-Costs more
-Worse gaming performance

I don't see why you continue to act as if I am saying to NOT upgrade the card at all.

I am not telling the OP to never upgrade the card, I am just saying for him to wait one month, get the new system now, and then upgrade to the newer faster cards that are being released in one month, which will provide far better system performance and better game performance.

 

[gt_junkie]

My way.

+Saves him money
+Better gaming performance now

-Still old CPU

Still don't get this.

Waiting for the GPU makes sense. As that GX2 offers decent gaming performance even in newer game (i've used one @ 1680x1050 with oblivion, stalker and bioshock, etc with no problems).

He could sell the FX, mobo (assuming a decent one since he has the FX) and DDR (again assuming decent stuff) should return around £250 going by 2nd hand prices on a certain auction site.

That would mean he could buy a P35 mobo, q6600 and 4gb of OCZ PC6400 and pretty much break even. If he made less he could still get 2gb and a core2 instead which would bring that total comfortably below £200 and actually save him money. I know in general use the improvement may be somewhat transparent but if he encodes or video edits, etc, etc... he would find it performed considerably better!

Your approach would cost him money regardless. Sell GX2 for £50-£60 then spend another £50 or so buying a card that you might want to upgrade in a month. Does not really make sense to me.

gt

 

[queamin]

I would wait until ati and/or nvidia bring their cards out in a month or two then buy what you want if your cpu bottlenecks it,then decide if you need a new mb and cpu and ram.

 

[Paracelsus]

Should have added, I'm not saying he should get a new GPU now either, if the 7950GX2 is anything like X1950XTs in crossfire, I would deffo wait to see what the 4xxxx/9900 are like.

 

[bagman]

Hi guys

Well looks like the decision has been made for me, in some respects.

My main hard drive died on me today, so looks like a new hd and XP install will be needed.
I thought, if I'm going to have to go that route might as well bite the bullet and do the upgrade now.

This is what I'm thinking:

ASUS Striker II Extreme NF 790I LGA775 board
Corsair Twin 2x 4096mb 240-pin DDR2 XMS2-6400 RAM
INTEL Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16ghz CPU
ANTEC 650w Truepower Trio power supply
2 x 8800GTS cards.

What do you think ???

Any particular brand of graphics card better than the other ?

Any recommendations on a new hard drive.
Was looking at the Samsung Spinpoint F1 750gb which seems to get good reviews.

Appreciate all your input.

cheers

 

[Dark_Angel]

Hi guys

Well looks like the decision has been made for me, in some respects.

My main hard drive died on me today, so looks like a new hd and XP install will be needed.
I thought, if I'm going to have to go that route might as well bite the bullet and do the upgrade now.

This is what I'm thinking:

ASUS Striker II Extreme NF 790I LGA775 board
Corsair Twin 2x 4096mb 240-pin DDR2 XMS2-6400 RAM
INTEL Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16ghz CPU
ANTEC 650w Truepower Trio power supply
2 x 8800GTS cards.

What do you think ???

Any particular brand of graphics card better than the other ?

Any recommendations on a new hard drive.
Was looking at the Samsung Spinpoint F1 750gb which seems to get good reviews.

Appreciate all your input.

cheers

I would highly recommend *not* going SLI.

Now in particular is a bad time with ATI and NV preparing their "new" cards. Which will out perform the current ones.

I would recommend if you need to get a GPU now, a single 8800GTS. Save the rest of the money and just sell it and grab the latest range of cards a month or so after releases, when prices should be a little more stable.