Would I be a complete idiot if...?

IMO, Yes, you'd be a complete idiot to go for the Ferrari, I'd love one - heck, I doubt any serious petrol head wouldn't want to scratch that itch, but, compared to an M3 I think the ownership experience would be very painful and frankly the M3 is the better drivers car.

Based soley on somewhat brief experiences, I thought the 360 was beautiful to look at but I was very very underwhelmed by driving one,perhaps I was expecting WAY too much? I don't know but I was left feeling very dissapointed - don't meet your hero's and all that perhaps?

The Vantage I loved on the other hand. The M3 I loved too but it didn't have the "sense of occasion" that the Aston did, it - the Vantage - felt special where the BMW didn't (although much much nicer than my then 325i!!! :D )

And what is it about european car prices? - an ex-pat friend of my sisters who lives permanently in the same appartment complex as her holiday home in Murcia, South Spain has just bought an e39 530i, 2000 (pretty much identical to mine bar its LHD) yet he paid 3,800 Euro for it, its done 200k km and has a dented drivers door, but admittedly no rust whatsoever.

My £1550 example is pretty much perfect bar a bit of bubbling on the bootlid..

They seem to command such a premium over there!
 
If you aren't doing many miles, get the 360. Strong residuals and if the mileage is low you may get lucky on running costs. The 360 is a tier above an M car in the 'special' stakes.

Strangely I've been thinking about a 360 to replace the M5 now my mileage is lower (but don't have fifty grand spare), and I'm driving an E92 M3 around at the moment! :p
 
I would quite like a 458 but its way out of my price range, I could afford a 360 or 430 but I cant afford to spend 10k a year running it properly. As fox said buy a 09 M3 or if you want to spend more get a Gen 2 cayman or 997.2 C2S.
 
I had a 360, awful daily driver for my needs, f1 gearbox around town was back breaking, it stalled all the time and the immobiliser ensured you couldn't quickly remedy it! obscene costs (one seized engine cost £18,785) with seemingly monthly issues. On a run the engine note was sublime, the attention I very much welcomed and tunnels were awesome, I used to ensure I treated as many people as possible to at least one redline note every-time I drove to docklands or telehouse/globalswitch.

I would never ever own another one, if it helps I moved to a cayenne turbo which I enjoyed a lot more even if I did lose the exhaust note :(
 
[TW]Fox;27584307 said:
You will do - you are buying the last of a previous generation car that came out in 2007 as an M3 and 2005 as a regular 3 Series so the depreciation from £40,000 will be reasonably savage and almost certainly exceed your 6k a year budge.t

As the cars age the value difference between years compresses, look at the E46 M3 now where there is only a few grand difference between a 2003 and say a 2005.
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I wasn't incorporating the depreciation into that figure... I hadn't been taking into account depreciation at all, really.

It is worth considering though, I suppose.

Scania said:
IMO, Yes, you'd be a complete idiot to go for the Ferrari, I'd love one - heck, I doubt any serious petrol head wouldn't want to scratch that itch, but, compared to an M3 I think the ownership experience would be very painful and frankly the M3 is the better drivers car.

Based soley on somewhat brief experiences, I thought the 360 was beautiful to look at but I was very very underwhelmed by driving one,perhaps I was expecting WAY too much? I don't know but I was left feeling very dissapointed - don't meet your hero's and all that perhaps?

The Vantage I loved on the other hand. The M3 I loved too but it didn't have the "sense of occasion" that the Aston did, it - the Vantage - felt special where the BMW didn't (although much much nicer than my then 325i!!! :D )

And what is it about european car prices? - an ex-pat friend of my sisters who lives permanently in the same appartment complex as her holiday home in Murcia, South Spain has just bought an e39 530i, 2000 (pretty much identical to mine bar its LHD) yet he paid 3,800 Euro for it, its done 200k km and has a dented drivers door, but admittedly no rust whatsoever.

My £1550 example is pretty much perfect bar a bit of bubbling on the bootlid..

They seem to command such a premium over there!
Click to expand...

For me it would depend on how it drives... it was something I loved when I was younger... but the look and sound. My handling tastes have evolved somewhat and the mixed reviews don't help. I would have to get my hands behind the wheel to make my mind up.

The vantage isn't my favourite - although I know the wife would love one! Plus I'd keep thinking I was missing 4 cylinders... not that I don't love V8s :)

As for the prices... you better not look in Switzerland... they are absolutely insane! 30%+ more new compared to UK and second hand holds too.

People over here seem to keep their cars for longer and there is a lower percentage of fleet cars, hence the second hand market doesn't get flooded driving the prices down.

PMKeates said:
If you aren't doing many miles, get the 360. Strong residuals and if the mileage is low you may get lucky on running costs. The 360 is a tier above an M car in the 'special' stakes.

Strangely I've been thinking about a 360 to replace the M5 now my mileage is lower (but don't have fifty grand spare), and I'm driving an E92 M3 around at the moment! :p
Click to expand...

Good point on the residuals... the 360 would likely be the better investment as long as I covered myself on the likes of engine seizures mentioned below.

I think mr sensible (in my head) is doing his white noise to try and drown out the excited kid screaming for the ferrari... dang it... but then there is the re-sale value... 1-2 years of ownership and then part-ex for something else is rather tempting though. I would have to check the fine print on the warranty they are offering with some of them, depends on the dealer...
 
Dr House said:
I would quite like a 458 but its way out of my price range, I could afford a 360 or 430 but I cant afford to spend 10k a year running it properly. As fox said buy a 09 M3 or if you want to spend more get a Gen 2 cayman or 997.2 C2S.
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I am tempted by the 997.2 C2S... it would push the budget up to 60-65k E for one with decent options and low mileage in a 2009-2011 model with PDK & 3.8L engine.

There is a 2011 GTS listed for 66k E with 64k km on the clock... nice looking options, but am I correct in thinking an LSD is an optional extra on the C2S & GTS? If so... there do not appear to be many with that option ticked / listed :(

Will Gill said:
I had a 360, awful daily driver for my needs, f1 gearbox around town was back breaking, it stalled all the time and the immobiliser ensured you couldn't quickly remedy it! obscene costs (one seized engine cost £18,785) with seemingly monthly issues. On a run the engine note was sublime, the attention I very much welcomed and tunnels were awesome, I used to ensure I treated as many people as possible to at least one redline note every-time I drove to docklands or telehouse/globalswitch.

I would never ever own another one, if it helps I moved to a cayenne turbo which I enjoyed a lot more even if I did lose the exhaust note :(
Click to expand...

Ouch... that's quite the rebuild cost!

As much as I want one... I'm thinking about being boring and going the M3/911 route now...

Django x2 said:
That's not the old saying, but H'ok,,,

For Ferrari exotica, it's "Afford to buy two, afford to run one"
Click to expand...

lol
 
If you are going to buy a Ferrari get the 458 have driven it myself, but it's something that you take out a few times a year and if you drive it fast most of the time you won't get many mpg 5 at the most
 
Rather like the look of this one:

http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-26215145.html
Slightly higher mileage than I was hoping for, but it might be worth it for a GTS... no Bose sound system though and I hear the basic one is rather... basic.

I'm buying for the driving experience primarily... only sometimes it would be nice to have the extra sound system on top of the exhaust note, of course.

And this one:
LSD + PASM + Bose + PASM:
http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-25313009.html



http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-25408983.html



PASM + Bose + LSD... but - 4WD:
http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-25928928.html

I know their 4WD system is one of the better ones... I'm just a bit of a RWD fanatic... so won't know unless I've sampled one.

LSD + PDK - Bose
http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-26071106.html

LSD + PASM + only one direct from porsche dealer - bose:
http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-26301746.html

LSD + Bose + extended warranty:
http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-25588816.html

Resistance said:
If you are going to buy a Ferrari get the 458 have driven it myself, but it's something that you take out a few times a year and if you drive it fast most of the time you won't get many mpg 5 at the most
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I would love to... of course... but that is wayyyyy out of my budget ;)

If I'm clever with purchases however, or I have a nice jump in job base rate... then maybe I can get one or equivalent in 5-10 years :)
 
I could never buy a Porsche 911 if i'm being honest, i just find any 911 to be boring and the same design every year.

Solid all round car but would pick an M3 every time over it. Still cant go wrong with a 911 and if thats what u want great.
 
You don't buy an old Ferrari for its reliability, great drivability (by modern standards) or any other logical reason. You buy it because you want some theatre in your life. This kind of decision is ruled by desire and lust, not by cold, hard facts!

A few years ago my friend decided to celebrate his divorce by buying a 1977 Ferrari 308 GTS from a well-respected dealer. By modern standards it was a joke - slow, soft wallowy suspension, no driver aids and it was horrendously unreliable, yet he drove it as a daily driver for about six months (the excellent warranty he purchased came in very useful).

He loved it. The only reason he sold it was due to his company promoting him to a position in Belgium, which he decided to commute from the UK on a weekly basis. He bought an RS6 for this :)

So, drive one and see if it makes you all 'tingly' and wakes you up in the middle of the night with pure lust.

If not, just buy a capable M3 (or 911).
 
crinkleshoes said:
Rather like the look of this one:

http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-26215145.html


And this one:
LSD + PASM + Bose + PASM:
http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-25313009.html



http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-25408983.html



PASM + Bose + LSD... but - 4WD:
http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-25928928.html

I know their 4WD system is one of the better ones... I'm just a bit of a RWD fanatic... so won't know unless I've sampled one.

LSD + PDK - Bose
http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-26071106.html

LSD + PASM + only one direct from porsche dealer - bose:
http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-26301746.html

LSD + Bose + extended warranty:
http://www.lacentrale.fr/auto-occasion-annonce-25588816.html
Click to expand...


Ok, PASAM is standard on all "S" cars


The first one is a GTS which is a completely different animal, the prices seem to be going up so it will hold value well if you run it for a year or 2. Spec seems to be good. I have not seen many with bucket seats. While I would not want them many do.

LSD - I dont think this is a option so I assume all cars have it.

The car from the Porsche dealer should come with a 2 year warranty.

If my If I was buying I would want a Gen 2 car, with PDK, Sports Chrono, Sports exhaust, bose and heated seats.

Nice to have would be, 14 or 18 way seats, adaptive xenons and any other extras.
 
Thanks for the tips... I've been reading some forums & some say it's an optional extra (I seemed to remember having to choose the option when I was using car configurator a few years ago) and others are saying it is included with sport suspension pack.

Others recommending the Quaife aftermarket LSD.

Looking at prices, it seems the Quaife is under £900 + fitting... so I can simply consider that it's not too expensive should I find a car that ticks all the other options but may not have an LSD as it's an important feature to me.


Most of the sites suggesting it's not standard are from the US... I'm wondering with the reduced capital purchase price over there, if that may be why it was an option there and included here...

Otherwise they confirm the 997.2 C4S all come with LSD as standard... but I want C2S
 
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dont mod a modern 911. You will have problems getting a warranty or trying to sell it on. If you want a driver focused car and cant afford a GT car get the GTS.
 
I have been looking over the last day or two, yes... importing seems to be quite simple & yes, you're right... the selection is much better.

French selection in this range of the market is abysmal.

Switzerland has a much better range to choose from in the right spec... is a bit overpriced but you seem to get spec and warranty that backs up the price compared to base spec + optional warranty at least. For example, with M3s... you tend to pay 5-20% more for similar age/mileage... but they usually come with most option boxes ticked and a 5 year warranty as standard.

Germany seems to find a decent middle ground & importing is quite basic... would have to get a carte grise (new number plate following MOT type thing) with any new car purchase in france. There would be no import tax for personal use & spec is just... better.

The 50k E 2013 M3 with most of the options I want in the colour I want with low kms I mention earlier in the thread is actually a german import through a broker who handle all the paperwork for you.

Will do more searching.

I confirmed today I cannot extend my budget much unless I wait... I could manage to set aside about 3k E per month comfortably.

So looking in the next 2-6 weeks... my max budget is 57-60k E.

So let's aim for 55k E and see what happens.



I have been contemplating an older, slightly higher mileage M3 at a lower price + Caterham R300/400 for the same combined price.

I think my primary options are:
2011-2013 M3
Gen 2 Cayman
2007-2010 (ideally 2009+) M3 + Caterham
Limited options 997.2 3.8

Last option would be quite nice, I suppose... would be nice to push the budget more but I'm limited for now.
 
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