Would you guys say this is quick?

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Long straight airfield, flat.
Car in 3rd gear, cruising at 2000rpm (circa 35mph).
Floor it and let off at 6500rpm (circa 117-119mph).

Time taken to go from 2000rpm - 6500rpm in 3rd = 10.48s (36mph - 119mph in 3rd)

Honest oppinions is that quick without going through the gears?

The timing is spot on, no stop watches or anything, proper timing equipment.

Oppinions?

Anybody got any similar info from other cars?

With some fine tuning this can be achieved in approx 9.5 - 9.8s.

 

[Gibbo]

HI there

Just to explain the strange method involved.

This was done for datalogging purposes. Best method of datalogging is to cruise on 10% throttle at 2000rpm in 4th which is approx 45ish mph. Then to give it wide open throttle without letting off upto 6400/6500rpm, then let off and stop recording. Obviously thats for when your on a dyno, when it comes to the road 4th will result in far too high speeds as 6500rpm in 4th is 160mph, that is basically what most cars do in 5th/6th gears. The Mustang has incredibly tall gearing. Hence why 3rd is more advisable for road/track, its not quite as accurate but is fine, next stage is 4th on the dyno along with some A/F readings from the dyno to get the tune finalised.

From the datalogging files it shows where too 1000th of a second where 100% throttle was applied, at what RPM and when throttle was eased off. Also a whole host of other things was recorded such as MAF voltages, load, fuel trims long and short, spark etc. This is to fine tune the car more.

The MAF will keep a good mixture upto 5.0v and at the moment its peaking at 4.7v at 6500rpm and 4.6v at 6000rpm. With some more investigation and checking of other parameters it appears the car has quite a bit more tuning potential in it yet with the bounds of been perfectly safe.
At the moment the car is running rich and conservative, but now the fine tuning begins.

So running conservative tune the car is propelling itself from 2000rpm upto 6500rpm in 3rd in basically 10.5s (30-120mph not indicated but real speed). With proper tuning and more efficient A/F ratio sub 10s should be easily doable.

For your information remember the cars gearing is extremely tall and it only has 5 gears:-
1st = 45-50mph (never tried)
2nd = 80mph
3rd = 120mph
4th = 160mph
5th = 240mph (Overdrive gear, realistic top-end is 180-190mph at which point the bonnet flies off )

Those are all based on revving upto 6500rpm.

If the same was to be done using 2nd/3rd I can reckon a good 2-3s would come of that time.

Now think of an M5 its 4th is most probably the equal to my 3rd in terms of gearing.

P.S. That was two up and a full tank of fuel.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

If watching the speedo it seems that for every 1s past 60mph the speedo goes up by a further 10mph.

I shall investigate the results more to see if I can extract some information like 60-100mph times as I'd imagine thats more widely used and bettered suited to my 3rd gear. As if it was not for datalogging purposes then 2nd would have been used to her moving a lot quicker.

P.S. For comparison my 3000GT (350BHP) did 50mph - 110mph in 8s using 3rd gear. If that has been from 30mph-120mph I suspect it would be more like 13s region. Less power but better aero-dynamics and traction.

 

[Gibbo]

If you can shave 3s off with the use of 2nd gear....wow, that really is quick

Hi there

I'd said at least 2s, 3s might be pushing it though and a damn good gear-change will be required.

 

[Gibbo]

As a comparison. Dont know if its through the gears, but guess it would be.

Well its a nice chart but nowhere does it tell you what power the cars are running.

Getting mine upto 130mph would take changing upto 4th, a nice quick change so say doable in 1s which I know is quite slow for a change as some can do them incredibly quickly. Now the weigh the car pulls does not die off at all so to go that little extra 10mph I'd say 2-3s would be conservative. So even with been conservative mine would still do that in 13-14s and thats based form starting in 3rd too, put 2nd into the equation and I reckon 12s area is maybe posssible (30-130mph).

 

[Gibbo]

Aye realised it when I posted it . Im willing to bet they went through the gears aswell. IIRC Norris was running around 800bhp

Well it shows with the time. Mentally fast, but no doubt safe with it been AWD.

I suspect going through the gears, 2nd, 3rd, 4th from 30-130mph with perfect gear changes hopefully 12s or less possible.

 

[Gibbo]

I can only tell you from 30-120 in an M5, in fourth gear takes nearly 25 seconds. Hang on!

edit: yeah, come up with some better measurements!

In-gear times, in third for a Gallardo are as follows:

20-40 - 2.5
30-50 - 2.0
40-60 - 1.9
50-70 - 2.0
60-80 - 2.2

And from standing start, the Gallardo up to 120 takes 14 seconds. Not forgetting it's got the traction from an AWD system.

Hi there

Just looked through my datalog file to work out what mine is doing.
Remember my results are based from the I was already moving at wide open throttle which will obviously give my results the advantage unless the Gallardo's results were gained in a similar fashion:-

30-50mph = 1.80s
40-60mph = 2.45s
50-70mph = 2.66s
60-80mph = 2.60s
60-100mph = 5.15s
30-120mph = 10.48s

So not bad in comparison to the Gallardo and bear in mind I suspect the Gallardo has more than 5 gears and hence making its ratios shorter. Obviously though if they tested different that would make the results slightly different but the bonus of been supercharged is zero-lag and it pulls like a train with no sign of dying off in fact past 4500rpm it pulls harder which is maybe why the 60-80mph time seems quicker.

Also my tuners in the US just got back to me. They say my car is running more or less exactly as they predicted. My tune is good but the car is running rich when on wide open throttle. Once I've got my A/F readings they can write me a new tune and then do this over again. However they've done 400+ of these cars now and from the results mine is nothing out of the ordinary compared to others but does seem to be better than average. They reckon if I wanted I could get this upto 495RWHP on the stock engine internals and fueling system which is a little better than normal. I will be happy to get between 440-460RWHP their terms which is 500+ at the crank. At the moment I suspect its around 410-430RWHP (470-490BHP).

 

[Gibbo]

Nah he said 30-101mph on his mates BMW in 3rd

Who said that?

 

[Gibbo]

For info, E36 M3 takes 11.33 seconds to do 30-101mph (limiter in 3rd)

Thats very very quick.

Ah sorry m8.

When you said yours could do that I thought you were comparing it too mine. Now I understand as you were comparing it to the BMW. Though from judging by the post maybe I am not the only one to think that.

And I would thoroughly expect your car to be on par if not quicker than an E36 BMW M3.

 

[Gibbo]

I'm not quite sure that's the accepted standard for 'in gear' timings...

Its all I have for now.
Still the 30-120mph (10.48s - Two up, full tank) time seems quick compared to what others have shown me and that was done via the proper method except I started off in 3rd wheras starting from 2nd would have improved the time.

I am happy with the results as these are just figures, fact is on the road its absolutely lethal. Even without using the gears and flooring it in 4th it just hauls ass instantly and pulls stronger and stronger as the RPM increases. Unlike a turbo there is no surge, no lagg and it does not die off. Its very additive but past 5000rpm it does seem to be a case of how big your balls are if you keep planted lol as it really feels like the road is gonna be ripped from underneath you.

 

[Gibbo]

IIRC a friend and I timed my Elise at 40-70, from a steady 40 then W OT to 70, in the summer and it came out at something like 3.8s.

Not sure if that's relevant or not though as my car's a bit down on power until I fix the induction.

Whats wrong with the cars induction m8?

Thats certainly not slow! Looking at the file mine seems to be reporting 3.4s for the same time in 3rd gear.

 

[Gibbo]

Rodneys Evo 2 did:

0 - 60 = 3.39
0 - 100 = 7.82
qrt mile = 11.69 @ 120.6


I see he has a 3071 listed there which I think is good for around 450bhp

Get ya car in at next 30-130 day with MLR gibbo(I could ask?), get to use some proper timing gear then

Hi m8

Where are these days. Would be interested in doing one if its not the other end of the country. As I am hopefuly once she is all done that 30-130mph going through the gears will be doable in 10s-12s.

 

[Gibbo]

Cold air feed ducting is perished and cracked. As I'm using the car as a daily driver at the moment it's not high up on my to do list

The Mustang is mine too, though when it gets too cold/icy I won't be chancing it, lots of rubber, RWD and large amounts of power with no driver aids could be a bad combination when the roads of icy/snowy.

 

[Gibbo]

Not to sure on next one as suprise suprise people in area complained about sound levels or something.

Its not like if you get the sound of loud cars when you move into an area with a race track

Next one is in the pipe line tho so will post here when I know more.

Hopefully should have the Evo running by then.

always a few people dissapointed at these events as a real 130mph is a fare bit faster than some people think going by there speedo

Well my results don't go from the speedo indicated. They are based on RPM/Engine speed and based on my gearing, wheel/tyre size its know what exact REAL speed its travelling at based from those factors.

 

[Gibbo]

BTW gibbo work on them gear changes.

'Duran' who ran it in a FQ400 before lost nearly a second from gear changes alone if I remeber correctly.

Hi m8

In the S2000 I was lethal with the gear box. Literally never missed a gear and my change were lightning quick. Damn that car had the best gear box I've ever had the enjoyment of using.

The Mustang I am not quite so quick from 2nd - 3rd but my 3rd to 4th is pretty instant.

A lot of the guys in the US actually powershift and don't use the clutch. Too me that just sounds scary, some don't even let of the throttle. It amazes me how the cars are still going on their stock clutches, gearboxes but they are and some have several hundred passes at the strip.

 

[Gibbo]

what sort of 1/4's are people doing in these anyways?

Hi m8

Guys running similar setups but with drag tyres. So say a 15/16" wheel on the back with huge rubbers on the rear. Are hitting 60mph in 2.9-3.1s and doing the 1/4 in 10.8s - 11.2s thats guys with around the 500BHP area at the crank. With terminals closing on 130mph. Basically same mods as mine, better more aggressive tune though and drag tyres.

Those on street tyres and larger wheels are ranging from 11.4 - 12.2s dependent on driver and shifting technique etc. Terminals vary from 115-124mph. (Again pretty identical setup too mine)

The guys who are tuning my car have theirs running around 640BHP on the stock engine internals, its also an AUTO with drag slicks. They just ran a 10.2s 1/4 with 134mph terminal on the West Coast. Their best result yet!!

They are aiming for 9.9s area with the engine still on stock internals and then its time for some serious modifications. I am running my Saleen Supercharger at 7.5psi whereas these guys are at approx 12psi I believe.

 

[Gibbo]

Erm, that doesn't work.

If 2000rpm in 3rd equates to 30mph then 6500rpm is 97.5mph.

I've just looked at the spreadsheet and inputting my tyre/wheel size along with manual 3.55 gears means that 2000rpm is actually 34mph and 6500rpm is 119mph. So its a little bit out which no doubt SKU's the figures a bit, probably puts it in the 11s area.

Still I don't know how you only get 97.5mph at 6500rpm though? Even with 4:10 gears installed which are shorter 6500rpm still results in 102mph in 3rd at 6500rpm.

For 6500rpm to be 97.5mph in my car I'd need to have 4.30 gears installed which are incredibly short, yes it would accelerate a lot more quicker but it would use tons more fuel and a supercharged car does not particulary need such short gearing.

P.S. If I had STD wheel and tyre sizes (235/45/17) then my top speed in 3rd would reduce to 104mph with my gears, however as my car has 275/40/20 wheels/tyres it greatly increases top-end in each gear.

Then there is the fact that so many guys running these in 1/4 in the US are getting terminals in the 115mph area and are still in 3rd.

 

[Gibbo]

I'm confused now

Granted I know squat about cars but surely, in any given gear, the ratio of engine speed to vehicle speed is fixed?

Thus if, in 3rd, 2000rpm equated to 30mph then that's 15mph per 1000 engine rpm, so 6500rpm = 6.5 x 15 = 97.5mph?

Or am I doing something very stupid here?

Your maths makes perfect logic m8.

Though maybe tyre/wheel size combo's SKU this and therefor make this logic no longer possible?

Give me your email addy if you wish and I can send you the spreadsheet that works it all out for the 2005 upwards Mustang.

Can't deny the evidence and fact that proper measuring equipment has been used and these cars certainly do peak at 118ish mph in 3rd when running a similar wheel/tyre size combo to myself as long as 3.55 gears are used.

 

[Gibbo]

Email's in trust if you want to send them through. Be interested to read but I could well not understand a single word of it

Hi m8

Just worked it all out and your logic is correct. The spreadsheet is full of formulas etc. so I had it on the wrong column.

2000rpm = 36.39mph

So divide 36.39mph by 4 and you get 9.09mph which gives you your per 500rpm amount.

So times 36.39mph by three gives you 109.19mph at 6000rpm, so add your 9.09mph on for the extra 500rpm gives you 118.28mph in 3rd at 6500rpm.

So your logic is correct, its my fault for reading from the wrong places.

So the correct figure should be 36.39mph - 118.28mph is what is actually taking 10.48s. So that still fast? Certainly feels it!!

So a real 30-120mph will be approx a second more and a bit maybe. Going through the gears will probably shave 2-3s off that.

P.S. Just seen your reply.

 

[Gibbo]

Why are you asking a car forum if your car is fast ?

Well why not?

Simple really I had nothing else to compare it against and by posting on here I now have several comparisons from what other cars have done.

Also have found out about a 30-130mph event which I would certainly like to attend so for me the post has been worthwhile.

This is afterall a forum, one about motors where we discuss motors whether they be our own or not.