Would you say this is exploitation at work? Just want Thoughts

linktoinsanity said:
There is a huge difference between doing something extra and building a full-blown website. Do you understand how much it would cost in reality to pay someone to do that job?

If the OP was happy doing it then that's fine, but the fact he is asking, shows he isn't.
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Yes. The OP has been free for over a year to go and charge full professional web developer rates. I suspect the reason he hasn't is either:

1) The OP isn't a professional web developer with the relevant experience, skills and/or portfolio
2) There is no work the OP can find

In both situations making comparisons to what it would cost the OP's boss to contract a professional/agency to develop the website are not useful. The OP's boss would probably do nothing rather than pay full rate, and the OP would gain zero from the situation other than a perturbed boss - who can fire him without warning, landing the OP in hot water.

Alternatively, the OP can develop the website. Maybe try some new techniques he's interested in/learning about, hone his existing skills, maybe the OP's boss is impressed and tells some acquaintances who own another business, who then ask the OP to build them one, too. I have a web developer friend who started a small business at a young age through that very thing happening.

Almost certainly nothing will come of cleaning the floors, but maybe - just maybe - something will come of doing the IT work. At worst, he'll enjoy it more than cleaning the floors.
 
PMKeates said:
I would just like to echo the sentiments of those promoting the 'work hard' attitude. I have worked a silly number of hours on a silly number of things that have never been in any employment contracts, and they have only contributed positively to my overall career and compensation. Nobody owed me any of the opportunities and I had no right to them. That said, don't be exploited. If you can walk in to another position with double the benefits and no downsides, do it - but be very sure it's really the case.
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+1

funny at my place of work people refusing to do jobs. im a trades man blah blah.
you get nowhere in life, and you'd think they would learn that from all the old timers who are still stuck at the same old bench spouting the same tunes.

i give a lot at work. respect is earned not given, and it goes along way to excell above the rest as thats how you get noticed. you dont have to be up the bosses backside, just work. youre there anyways so wehats the problem. theres nothing worse than slacking on a job just to waste time or bank time, it just makes the day go slower and is more awkward than just getting on with it. building a website is hardly going to kill you now is it? and i doubt he will be pressuring you for it.

just build the site, research and hone your webbuilding skills in work hours and explain that you need to, as you feel the website would be more polished. use the then finished website for your portfolio and leave. the guy ows you nothing, if you can find a higher paid job then what are you doing in that one?
its funny how some people, once in a job, expect to then turn into the boss with the im not doing this or that. imagine if you were on the dole, i remember when i was and id rather be scrubbing mc d's floors then go back into it, which is well below my qualifications and pay
 
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It is astonishing how many people seem disconnected with the reality of business today. If you think you are better than you are paid and what you are being asked to do then it is in your hands to change it, do so. If you are unwilling, unable or think you are down trodden, you are actually at your real level. The OP's question was rationally laid out but I suggest you see it as an opportunity. Show what you can do, make yourself more valuable to the business and then negotiate. At the moment you are a bloke who smiles and cleans a shop, NOTHING more. Anyone can do that, so moan and be prepared to be sent packing, which is what I would do as the owner of the business if you had not demonstrated any more value. The fact is that most employees are not exceptional, are not special and really aren't as good as they think they are. They sneer at the well paid and tell the world how they could do that if only given the chance....without appreciating the chance is there, they just are incapable of grasping it.
 
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Caged said:
If you know how to install Windows and what a driver is then doing it multiple times doesn't gear you up to image PCs through System Center / WDS.
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if you are doing the same thing over and over again, then yes. However, if he is looking after different makes and models then there is real value in learning how to silently install drivers for example....or what pre-reqs are required (c++ resist, .net framework, silverlight). It was a bad example i'll be honest, but it does prove that so called menial work carries some benefit (if you look on it with a positive attitude).

You could also learn a little vbscript or powershell which helps massively. Remember, all this is in works time. Win, Win as far as I'm concerned. If you can get away with learning and benefiting yourself during work then go for it.

There are people who won't of course, but that's there look out

The guys at work won't. They will only learn something if the company pays and sends them on a training course. That really makes my blood boil to be honest. There has to be a little give and take of course. IT is a really fast moving area of work to be in. If you can't keep up, then at some point your going to be of no use to anyone. I guess from my own selfish reasons if the majority of people get left behind, at least i won't have a hard time finding work :D
 
Hey, Its OP here.

I didn't notice how big this thread got and only just checked back! Mix bag by peoples views, I do see where people are coming from about the "it helps get further jobs". Either way I had an interview Monday and got offered a job for double my current hourly rate of pay :)

Going to be working for the NHS so touch wood (even with all the cuts) I should be able to make a go of this role and not feel like i'm being taken for granted as there will obviously be allot of experience to gain and progression !


As for the current job I am in, I decided to keep my head down and just get a good reference out of Mr. Boss-man. His website is pretty much finished now and I will be handing in my notice soon after I meet with the NHS recruitment office. :D

Can't wait to see what he says about the lack of IT support... I will be sure to mention I will repair his systems and website after I leave.... For a Fee ;)
 
solado said:
Hey, Its OP here.

I didn't notice how big this thread got and only just checked back! Mix bag by peoples views, I do see where people are coming from about the "it helps get further jobs". Either way I had an interview Monday and got offered a job for double my current hourly rate of pay :)

Going to be working for the NHS so touch wood (even with all the cuts) I should be able to make a go of this role and not feel like i'm being taken for granted as there will obviously be allot of experience to gain and progression !


As for the current job I am in, I decided to keep my head down and just get a good reference out of Mr. Boss-man. His website is pretty much finished now and I will be handing in my notice soon after I meet with the NHS recruitment office. :D

Can't wait to see what he says about the lack of IT support... I will be sure to mention I will repair his systems and website after I leave.... For a Fee ;)
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Well done on the new job and yeah, offer your continued services, for a fee... :)
 
Build him a website in work hours... do the best job of it you can, and then add it to your resume/CV as a recent work/project. This is an opportunity for him, and an opportunity for you to help get yourself out of the job your in, and into a new one.

If you don't do something yourself to keep your skills up, you will lose them, and other employers won't be interested.

I am currently unemployed in the USA (technically still employed in the UK), but money is now running out fast. I have had to reteach myself a lot of stuff, and now I have two job offers that I have to decide upon by tomorrow at around 50k pounds and a third I have a final interview for tomorrow. I have been trying to get employed since November over here and now it's finally coming through. Get out there.. start interviewing for places (use Monster dot com etc and ACTUALLY APPLY for posts...apply for lots).

Best of luck to you and get out of that place and take ANY experience you can with you, and right now.. that website stuff is the best exp you can be getting.

EDIT: Opps.. read the rest of the thread and see you got offered a job.. WELL DONE :-)
 
glen8 said:
There is no such thing as menial IT work

if you are rebuild pcs all the time, installing drivers, windows updates, fixing issues, this helps with say SCCM which is an enterprise level product

so what if the systems are old, many large corporates have old systems as well

think of the positives, not the negatives!
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I think there is ? any moron can be taught to build a pc or do basic networking backup install windows drivers etc in a day or two.

If it's not considered menial low paid work now it soon will be.
 
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