WoW - What state is it in?
- Thread starter TommyTenToes
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The main reason I quit WoW was these hard modes. I was always slightly behind the bleeding edge of raiding but way above the average raiding population, but come WotLK, in my opinion, they completely ruined raiding. Once you have killed a boss (which they made a joke in WotLK), I see no reason whatsoever to artificially make the fight harder without any meaningiful rewards (titles, epics, mounts? These are not rewards..). I have already seen the boss, move on. Obviously some of my guildies always wanted to do hard modes so that pretty much drove me away from WoW.
Don't get me wrong, I love a challenge in WoW, but as I said, I don't see any reason to go back to a boss you have killed a dozen times and this time instead of poking his eyes, you poke his stomach making the fight last twice as long while he vomits on you. The fight should have been poking on stomach + vomit in the first place.
But I know I'm pretty much alone with my opinion
You are alone because the Hard Mode is an elegant solution to the age old problem of content and limiting its audience.
Casual Joe can now do every boss and see it, but those who want the Full Fat encounters can do them, get better (and more) loot not available in Easy Mode as well as the challenge of probably some of the hardest counters available.
The Hard Mode implementation lets Blizzard make truly properly hard encounters (of which there were NONE in LK Naxx) and still cater to the entire playerbase.
The main reason I quit WoW was these hard modes. I was always slightly behind the bleeding edge of raiding but way above the average raiding population, but come WotLK, in my opinion, they completely ruined raiding. Once you have killed a boss (which they made a joke in WotLK), I see no reason whatsoever to artificially make the fight harder without any meaningiful rewards (titles, epics, mounts? These are not rewards..). I have already seen the boss, move on. Obviously some of my guildies always wanted to do hard modes so that pretty much drove me away from WoW.
Don't get me wrong, I love a challenge in WoW, but as I said, I don't see any reason to go back to a boss you have killed a dozen times and this time instead of poking his eyes, you poke his stomach making the fight last twice as long while he vomits on you. The fight should have been poking on stomach + vomit in the first place.
But I know I'm pretty much alone with my opinion
You're not at all alone - plenty of guilds have disintigrated for the exact reason you have stated - hardmodes are no substitute for having challanging content in the first place.
These hard modes are a complete cop out, and these idiots on the wow forums who immediately spout crap like "lolz link ulduar hardmodes if you think the game is easy" the second anyone speaks the truth about the game being a complete retardfest is completely missing the point.
Having a few hard modes in an instance does NOT change the fact that the game has been dumbed down to cater for 8 year kids.
And the thing is - nobody really cares if you have some achievement saying you have completed a hard mode. It means nothing now... not like in vanilla when you saw a warrior in some T2 with Ashkhandi or similar. Nef was a boss not that many people had the privilage to see, let alone kill until the latter stages of vanillas release.
Opening up everything to be more easily accessable to the unskilled moron who thinks being decked out in purples makes him a hero was the worst move Blizzard ever did.
The % of the player base who saw the endgame content Blizzard made that was hard was TINY.
How is allowing your entire player base have access to content the worst move they ever did?
You are ignorant. It makes perfect business sense and also allows the game to still present HARD challenges to the small % of players who want them.
Blizzard could have just made everything easy - Ala WoTLK Naxx and left it at that. Ulduar introduced the hard-mode encounters which is a great solution without shafting those of us who want the hard-modes.
The worst decision they could have made was not introducing them. Opening the game up more to the larger player base was inevitable.
I've killed Kil Jaeden and M'Uru in their original un-nerfed states, something a very very VERY small amount of guilds achieved. They were nerfed so they became killable to the non-cutting edge player base. Probably the player base you killed it in (If you killed it at all) so don't sit here and preach that the decisions they made were the worst ones ever when you, yourself, have probably benefited from the same ideology.
Your quote is just indicative that you are somehow threatened that people can get the same gear you have. Hard-modes give those who achieve them loot that easy modes do NOT give.
Nef was seen by a hell of a lot more people than Kel Thuzad was.
Ashkandi was not a rare weapon in the grand scheme of things.
No it wasn't.
So you've cleared every "hardcore" piece of content to make this statement?
Our guild clears hardcore content in weeks and puts it on farm, that leaves us with alts and other avenues. Letting the easy content be accessible is great.
Seems the people who are getting annoyed are those who are being matched by "casuals" who are inevitably not in a position to be doing hardcore hard modes, at least not in a cutting edge time scale.
Farming rep for accexx to Naxx was enjoyable?
Farming rep in AQ40 was enjoyable?
The trash before C'Thun was enjoyable?
Quite frankly, a lot of the changes have removed more time sinks than "demonstrations of skill" and in my mind that is nothing but a good thing.
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In the original game yes, I'm a Warlord in the original PvP system and cleared every single raid but I haven't played endgame Wotlk properly because I dislike the game now.
It's not even that raids are not what they used to be; I don't like the direction the game has taken in general. The introduction of splitting the PvP and PvE gear up with resiliance was a blow to the game for me, and the badge system, heroic grinding, it just doesn't appeal to me. Saying it was **** was over the top I agree but I don't like it. Even something as simple as horde and alliance having the same central meeting point just feels wierd.
It's not even that raids are not what they used to be; I don't like the direction the game has taken in general. The introduction of splitting the PvP and PvE gear up with resiliance was a blow to the game for me, and the badge system, heroic grinding, it just doesn't appeal to me. Saying it was **** was over the top I agree but I don't like it. Even something as simple as horde and alliance having the same central meeting point just feels wierd.
Don't get me wrong, there are changes they made that don't bode well with me PERSONALLY but I can see why they were done.
I have PvPed as a Shadow priest since day one. You think I liked it when my HUGE PvE gear dominance was removed by the introduction of PvP gear? Starting with the heavy Stam stuff and now the resiliance gear.
I used to PvP in Naxramas (Original 40 man) gear and was untouchable. This is kind of why the changes were made, cutting edge hardcore PvE guilds were trashing everyone who did not have access to the gear. From a competitive standpoint having a SOMEWHAT level playing field in terms of gear accessability makes sense in PvP. There is still a little bias as PvE/PvP hybrid gear set-ups are often preferred in the arena. I used to run double set bonuses with Tier 6.
People whined endlessly that blizzard were nerfing SWP bosses. Why did they care? Killed them, had it on farm, what skin was it off thier nose that more people got to see what you have done. There is absolutely no prestige in farming content.... if you want prestige then kill it when it means something.
I have PvPed as a Shadow priest since day one. You think I liked it when my HUGE PvE gear dominance was removed by the introduction of PvP gear? Starting with the heavy Stam stuff and now the resiliance gear.
I used to PvP in Naxramas (Original 40 man) gear and was untouchable. This is kind of why the changes were made, cutting edge hardcore PvE guilds were trashing everyone who did not have access to the gear. From a competitive standpoint having a SOMEWHAT level playing field in terms of gear accessability makes sense in PvP. There is still a little bias as PvE/PvP hybrid gear set-ups are often preferred in the arena. I used to run double set bonuses with Tier 6.
People whined endlessly that blizzard were nerfing SWP bosses. Why did they care? Killed them, had it on farm, what skin was it off thier nose that more people got to see what you have done. There is absolutely no prestige in farming content.... if you want prestige then kill it when it means something.
Why are you making assumptions what i have and havnt done? What grounds do you possibly have to talk such tripe? Its like me saying "i bet you are the sort of person who kicks dogs".
Your argument may have stood up if you just resisted the urge get personal just because someone on the internet disagrees with somthing you said.
What next? Name calling? Spreading rumours that i wet the bed?
Grow up.
I think its a safe assumption to make considering the guilds that achieved this are, I believe, in single figures and your opinion of the game as it is now is stereotypical of the kind of people who are not in these guilds.
Their decision was not moronic, vanilla WoW ran its course with the endgame content that hardly anyone saw, TBC saw a little of the same but Blizzard nerfed content to allow more people to see it and WoTLk went the step further and introduced granular difficulty.
I can make assumptions, I even said PROBABLY not DEFINITELY. Nothing in my argument was personal, and your view that Blizzard's decision was moronic IS ignorant in light of the actual facts and reasons for their choice.
Their decision was not moronic, vanilla WoW ran its course with the endgame content that hardly anyone saw, TBC saw a little of the same but Blizzard nerfed content to allow more people to see it and WoTLk went the step further and introduced granular difficulty.
I can make assumptions, I even said PROBABLY not DEFINITELY. Nothing in my argument was personal, and your view that Blizzard's decision was moronic IS ignorant in light of the actual facts and reasons for their choice.
For the record, i was not in one of these guilds - i got as far as the eradar twins in tbc and quit before the -30% nerf patch and never even set foot in naxx in vanilla.
But that isnt my point - I liked the fact that there was stuff out of my reach as it added a level of danger and immersion.
These days everything is open to anyone, which to me makes the whole thing meaningless as players are so damn powerful there is no sense of danger apart from in very few places.
Take for instance the epic hunter quest chain in vanilla. That took me two weeks to complete. It was frustrating and hard until they made it easier, but the sense of achievement was great upon completion and i truely thought i had earnt this awesome bow/staff.
Now days everything is pretty much handed to you on a plate ... Where is the sense of achievement ? A few hardmodes ?
Its not about epeen.... its about having a reason to log on where you dont really have to work for anything
Vanilla WoW was miles harder than the WoW we have nowadays. That is fact.
At the end of the day, I have to agree with Rimsy. I enjoyed Vanilla WoW a million times more than Wotlk. Theres no sence of achievement in anything you do now.
At the end of the day, I have to agree with Rimsy. I enjoyed Vanilla WoW a million times more than Wotlk. Theres no sence of achievement in anything you do now.
Harder or people were less experienced? Key difference.
Harder to get 40 people together and raid something consistently? Sure, not a reflection of the ACTUAL difficulty of an encounter though.
I want specific examples of what was so much harder in WoW then compared to now,or more precisely a count on what was harder.
I've played since retail and I am struggling to recount anything that was actually that much harder bar a few Naxx bosses and 2 or 3 in AQ40.
I played in noob to Above Average guilds in Vanilla wow and am comparing to what I found hard NOW in a hardcore guild. The game is what you make of it and if you chose to ignore hard modes that is down to you.
Harder to get 40 people together and raid something consistently? Sure, not a reflection of the ACTUAL difficulty of an encounter though.
I want specific examples of what was so much harder in WoW then compared to now,or more precisely a count on what was harder.
I've played since retail and I am struggling to recount anything that was actually that much harder bar a few Naxx bosses and 2 or 3 in AQ40.
I played in noob to Above Average guilds in Vanilla wow and am comparing to what I found hard NOW in a hardcore guild. The game is what you make of it and if you chose to ignore hard modes that is down to you.
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You want me to answer what state its in at this present minute ? 
well, log in problems, LOTS of lag, you get stuck in battlegrounds and cant log out and make a ticket, takes you 5 minutes to hearthstone, you get randomly ported to dalaran gravyard, you randomly join battlegrounds, and this is all after a huge maintanance, blizzard **** up sometimes grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
well, log in problems, LOTS of lag, you get stuck in battlegrounds and cant log out and make a ticket, takes you 5 minutes to hearthstone, you get randomly ported to dalaran gravyard, you randomly join battlegrounds, and this is all after a huge maintanance, blizzard **** up sometimes grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Well, I just quit for the last time. Just couldn't get playing a class I really enjoyed again. 80 Paladin, Shaman, Rogue and Priest. Within ~2 weeks of being level 80 on all of them, i got so bored it was unbearable. I also have several 70+ chars. Ah well, time to get rid of all this weight, instead of complaining about it, while I sit waiting to log in. 