Xbox One Doesn't Support AMD Mantle API

[LtMatt]

I'd give a penny for his thoughts...

Dice Dev Johann Anderson

 

[Silent_Scone]

Sounds like he's got his back up with what MS have said. It's probably likely AMD did a fair amount of ground work on the Xbox One. So they might just be getting peoples backs up a bit by refusing to acknowledge any credit. Who knows TBH - this whole thing is so smoke and mirrors, by the time Mantle sees the light of day everyone will have lost their marbles .

 

[Make]

The next big news is that it's also exclusive for just AMD cards, not just for PC.

 

[Suarez7]

The next big news is that it's also exclusive for just AMD cards, not just for PC.

 

[almighty15]

Xbox One supports Mantle just fine, Microsoft however do not.

 

[Orangey]

So Anand was waffling like I said all along.

Ahh so good to always be right.

 

[Silent_Scone]

lol .

They always waffle in my experience. Remember some now legacy devices that they recommended which I massively regret buying. Don't read a word they say these days.

 

[LtMatt]

So Anand was waffling like I said all along.

Ahh so good to always be right.

I'll give you this one Orangey.

 

[Rroff]

T
Seriously though, I guess I should have stated, I can't see any games that would normally use DX in the next at least few years deciding to not use it.

That would be a better way of putting it - which games do and don't use Open GL is a whole complicated subject of its own - i.e. you get games like COD that use an id engine that uses Open GL but they've pulled all the rendering code and replaced it with a DX renderer and vice versa.

 

[SkeeterUK]

Consoles already would be low level access so no need for mantle, isnt that right? It's on pc that users need something like mantle because of dx limitations on the pc where the consoles dont really need dx and the devs on consoles can already get really stuck into the hardware as they are all the same just as past consoles have.

 

[bru]

Sounds like he's got his back up with what MS have said. It's probably likely AMD did a fair amount of ground work on the Xbox One. So they might just be getting peoples backs up a bit by refusing to acknowledge any credit. Who knows TBH - this whole thing is so smoke and mirrors, by the time Mantle sees the light of day everyone will have lost their marbles .

Sounds about right, but to be fair if the pair of them worked on it together (AMD and Microsoft), I didn't see and AMD comments about we and others created mantle, it was all we have created mantle. So it not surprising that Microsoft wouldn't acknowledge AMD's participation in the Xbox one. (that is of course if there was any)

 

[bru]

A couple of new articles on anandtech help clarify a few things.

From Microsoft.

Finally, in an unexpected move, Microsoft also used the blog to quickly address the subject of AMD’s Mantle API, specifically saying that the Xbox One doesn’t support it nor OpenGL. The fact that Mantle isn’t supported comes as no surprise – Xbox One already has its own low level constructs versus the still in development Mantle – but we weren’t expecting Microsoft to comment on the matter since they aren’t involved in the development of Mantle.

source

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7420/microsoft-comments-on-state-of-direct3d-mantle-support-names-xbox-one-api-direct3d-11x


From AMD

Mantle is NOT in consoles.

source

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7421/amd-expands-on-microsoft-blog-post

 

[Deceptor]

Yes, Microsoft who is a multibillion dollar company with a primary focus (if not main) on software is about to rely on AMD to develop their API (which is software) to handle arguably the most important part of a console - the graphics rendering.

Uhm yeah... Keep dreaming people

 

[Gregster]

Yes, Microsoft who is a multibillion dollar company with a primary focus (if not main) on software is about to rely on AMD to develop their API (which is software) to handle arguably the most important part of a console - the graphics rendering.

Uhm yeah... Keep dreaming people

I shouldn't laugh at this but I did

 

[FrankJH]

Im obviously being stupid here but I will ask anyway

I can see why MS might choose not to adopt an API that is a "rival" to their own (I cant see this as a problem to be honest, at the end of the day the software we are talking about will still work on PC's / XBOne's so Im not sure why MS are complaining - they are still getting Windows /XBO licensing $$$) - but I cant see why Sony would stop it at all

At the end of the day this is "free" performance that is inherantly built into both bits of kit.......maybe to make it easier to get games to market to start with both will "turn the feature off" initally, but with firmware updates could so easily turn it on at any point they choose in the future.

Bit of a non story me thinks

Yes, Microsoft who is a multibillion dollar company with a primary focus (if not main) on software is about to rely on AMD to develop their API (which is software) to handle arguably the most important part of a console - the graphics rendering.

Uhm yeah... Keep dreaming people

Who ever said that either console can ONLY support one api.......

 

[drunkenmaster]

They made multiple comparative references in their presentation, which is probably what lead Anandtec (who I don't hold in high regard review wise anyway) to believe it.

In their defence they make it clear it's speculation, but I can see why they came away from Hawaii thinking it.

In the presentation, they used the words "Cross platform" when talking about Mantle, so I can see why people jumped to conclusions.

It is cross platform, however we're talking about Windows/SteamOS/Linux in general/android maybe even OSX.

there was nothing in the presentation at all that left me thinking it was ripped directly from either console but it's fairly logical to come up with the possibility that two of three of the players got together to share the workload and come up with a fairly common set of instructions for an API then split off a PC and console only version. This was always a possibility but not any more or less likely than any of the many other possibilitys.

The very least likely possibility which ever way you cut it was that MS who love lock in's and screwing everyone was going to allow something they helped make be used as an alternative to their main API.

I don't much like Anandtech as a review site, the conclusions they draw up from their own benchmarks are usually illogical and stupid, they make glaring errors and have done for years abd made poor assumptions based on their mistakes and this is yet another assumption based off poor reasoning that generally flew in the face of everything MS has become known for.

Consoles already would be low level access so no need for mantle, isnt that right? It's on pc that users need something like mantle because of dx limitations on the pc where the consoles dont really need dx and the devs on consoles can already get really stuck into the hardware as they are all the same just as past consoles have.

AFAIK the 360 runs on DX, while we aren't talking windows level DX and its far more hardware specific and has as such far fewer overheads, it still didn't and doesn't offer nearly the level of tweaking or access the PS3 offered. It sounds almost like a high level API that hides the hardware from the developer, but its a significantly more optimised DX with less to gain from direct hardware access in the first place so not as big a deal.

If that continues in the next gen consoles then the PS4 could have a significantly more "low level" API than MS have, if that will impact the available performance or what they do with it.... very hard to know. It's going to be very hard to quantify, even if the PS4 ends up with the prettier more advanced graphically game or can produce the same visuals with higher frame rate, the hardware differences are significant.

 

[medseven]

If Sony do decide to support it, while MS have said they already won't then potentially the PS4 can out shine the Xbox One bucket loads!

The PS4... better hardware to begin with, and if they adopt Mantle, a low level API designed to work directly with AMD's tech and squeeze every ounce out of it...

Xbox One... lower spec'd and supporting only High level API's designed to communicate with just about any x86 (64) system out there...

Coming from someone with little interest in getting either system as is just what I get from my perspective!

 

[Deceptor]

Who ever said that either console can ONLY support one api.......

No one, but why would they fragment their development?

There is honestly no good reason for them to accept any other API, be that Mantle or anything else. DirectX for the Xbox != DirectX for the PC, you're not going to get the same (or realistically any) performance gains and seeing as that's really the only point to Mantle existing it therefor has no reason to exist on the Xbox.

Consoles already give developers low-level access and in some cases DIRECT access to the hardware because the hardware is all the same. You simply cannot do that on a PC platform where who knows what is in the system, why else do you think Mantle is locked down to the GCN architecture? AMD are not about to invest in an API to support all their line up because the performance gains would drop insanely fast - unless they decided to develop architecture specific APIs which would be a crazy undertaking and in some sense insane.

People can hate on DirectX for its "poor" performance but I'd challenge you to develop something with better performance that supports everything DirectX can.