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Xeon vs i7

ubersonic said:
Well the thing about it that interests me is its performance (assuming the V2 IB version) compared to other processors in the same price/performance range, if your not interested in overclocking it looks like a bargain:

i5 2550K: slower at stock clocks and ~ same price
i7 2600: slower and more expensive
i7 2700K: ~ same performance at stock clocks and more expensive
i5 3550: slower but slightly cheaper
i5 3570K: slightly slower at stock clocks and ~ same price
i7 3770: 100mhz faster and more expensive*
i7 3770K: 200mhz faster at stock clocks and a lot more expensive**

*Would cover the cost of the ram or maybe the motherboard
**would cover the cost of the motherboard and maybe also the ram

Now im going to be replacing a lot of our workstations soon and don't plan on overclocking any hence why this chip interests me as in addition to great price/performance it also runs cooler than any i5/i7 according to the specs.
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Yeah true, well when I get it ill let you know and try answer any questions you might have.

Lazder said:
The thing is, can it run on normal 1155 socket?? If you dont want the ECC ram?
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Yes it runs in a normal 1155 socket.

Interesting thing is, why did they release xeons on 1155 ? I wonder if any dual socket 1155's will become available.
 
Combat squirrel said:
Yeah true, well when I get it ill let you know and try answer any questions you might have.
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Well I still think you're all missing the point of this product and the comparison list above doesn't paint the whole picture as you're not comparing apples with apples. It's designed for a different application in a different market with entirely different requirements and perceptions.

Firstly, don't compare it to ANY 'K' sku i5 or i7 ... you're paying the premium on those because you can unlock them, so that should be pretty evident.

There is a requirement of budget sensitive server/workstation enterprise-class CPUs in a depressed economic climate.

Yes it runs in a normal 1155 socket.

Interesting thing is, why did they release xeons on 1155 ? I wonder if any dual socket 1155's will become available.
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I doubt that any of the socket 1155 Xeons have the capability of being used in a dual-CPU config due to the limitations of the socket.

Socket 1155 just doesn't offer the capacity for interconnects required on a dual socket platform, hence you'll only find dual socket 2011 boards.

It might start to make more sense if you flipped the argument on it's head and asked 'why not use a core i7 in a server?' then you'll probably find that it's a matter of perception of Xeon's offering better service life and overal value, particularly on the 1155 socket. Many buyers of enterprise class kit wouldn't dream of touching a Core CPU simply because of that - but thats not the only reason these things even exist, but I believe that it's part of the answer.

Xeon on socket 1155 is partly branding, but also they fill the requirements which are specific to the enterprise and not the enthusiast/home market.

Why would I want to compromise the reliability of a server by overclocking? And if the platform requirements are not CPU intense then why pay a premium for a higher-spec Xeon on a dual socket platform that you will never use?
 
The thing is, its very useful to people who dont need IGP or Overclock, 3770 cost 240quid 1230v2 is 180 they offer similar performance for 60 quid I could buy a GPU that would blow away IGP.

It would still challenge 3570K/2500K since for same price you get 8 threads and for some people who use editing software that might be much more useful.
 
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Lazder said:
The thing is, its very useful to people who dont need IGP or Overclock, 3770 cost 240quid 1230v2 is 180 they offer similar performance for 60 quid I could buy a GPU that would blow away IGP.

It would still challenge 3570K/2500K since for same price you get 8 threads and for some people who use editing software that might be much more useful.
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Incorrect.

As has been said before, if you're doing editing then it is highly likely that you will want IGP for much better encoding performance with Quick Sync, so no ... you will be wanting a Core i5/7-2xxx/3xxx and not Xeon (or at least not this particular Xeon).

Not many enterprise scenarios that I can think of where video editting is a requirement and so quick sync would be a luxury thats not worth paying for.
 
The other thing folk are neglecting is that the Xeon will offer is better virtualisation than the 3770, and thats a very important differentiation in the modern enterprise - most everything is being virtualised right down to the desktop and the Xeon is able to offer VT-x which the regular consumer sku's don't.

The Core i7 doesn't offer vPro which is important for remote support, that in itself is enough to drive an enterprise purchasing decision.

The Xeon also offers Trusted Exection Technology which effectively also allows apps to run in their own 'sandbox' which makes things more secure and less prone to malware/spyware/viruses ... and guess what? Core i CPUs don't have that either.
 
I generally agree with your comments Dirtyganger, especially the Vt-x, v-pro etc, however the 1st comment about 'its designed and made for an entirely different market', is a load of tosh, every single sandy/ivy bridge ALL come from the same lithoography process, every, single, one.

The only difference in how they get chosen is, the duel cores come from quad core die's where core 3&4 failed for some reason, but the 1st 2 are fine - they end up pentiums or i3's. The i7's are all from totally successful casts. So are i5's probably, I'd guess a handful of i5's probably require a fraction more juice than is preferable to run HT so they end up i5's etc.

Xeons, GPU disabled and at the very most they may go as far as lasering the connections to the gpu so no power goes there thus lowering the watts to 80.

Also sometimes they take perfectly good cores and make them go to the lower range for market demands.

Am sure you get the idea, stick an i3, i5, i7, Xeon under the microscope and they will look identical.
 
Combat squirrel said:
I generally agree with your comments Dirtyganger, especially the Vt-x, v-pro etc, however the 1st comment about 'its designed and made for an entirely different market', is a load of tosh, every single sandy/ivy bridge ALL come from the same lithoography process, every, single, one.
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I never once said they didn't share the same lithography process or that they were different cores, but we're talking about the end product and what it's feature set offers to it's specific market.

They are different products that offer different features to entirely different markets. Otherwise it's a bit like saying a Vauxhall Astra is the same as a Zafira ... might be the same or similar chassis and engines, but are very different vehicles and someone that wants a sporty little hatchback isn't going to buy an MPV.
 
Dirtyganker, are the Intel specs wrong then? Not trying to pick an argument but had researched the non-K revisions for use in an ESXi box a while back.

You have said that you can't compare K versions which makes sense but the non K 2500/2600 variants do support the features you listed.

I am not sure anyone is suggesting a core chip would be sensible in a server but if quick sync is ignored (I have never used it and have no use of it) then the Xeon would be a great alternative to a 2500 at around the same price would it not due to HT?
 
IanAG said:
Dirtyganker, are the Intel specs wrong then? Not trying to pick an argument but had researched the non-K revisions for use in an ESXi box a while back.

You have said that you can't compare K versions which makes sense but the non K 2500/2600 variants do support the features you listed.

I am not sure anyone is suggesting a core chip would be sensible in a server but if quick sync is ignored (I have never used it and have no use of it) then the Xeon would be a great alternative to a 2500 at around the same price would it not due to HT?
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I was comparing it against a 3770k when I was looking at the specs but I guess I just assumed the non-K sku's would be similar. However, I stand corrected and what you point out is completely true, which is very interesting. For anyone else interested in taking a look at the comparisons then here's the link :-

http://ark.intel.com/compare/65732,65719,65702,65520,65523

Interesting that the K sku's don't have the enterprise goodies but the locked ones do but I also noticed that the Xeon has 4 additional PCI-E lanes but I don't know how they would be available on something like a Z77 board designed around 16 lanes via the CPU.
 
Dirtyganker said:
I was comparing it against a 3770k when I was looking at the specs but I guess I just assumed the non-K sku's would be similar. However, I stand corrected and what you point out is completely true, which is very interesting. For anyone else interested in taking a look at the comparisons then here's the link :-

http://ark.intel.com/compare/65732,65719,65702,65520,65523

Interesting that the K sku's don't have the enterprise goodies but the locked ones do but I also noticed that the Xeon has 4 additional PCI-E lanes but I don't know how they would be available on something like a Z77 board designed around 16 lanes via the CPU.
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Thanks for confirming. I know the Ark pages are not always 100% and thought maybe you had some experience of the non K's. I was pretty disappointed when I realised but guess it is back to what you have been saying about different markets. Effectively there are three Intel are targeting.

Does make me wonder the purpose of the 2500 chip particularly. I almost picked one up for an ESXi machine, if I am looking again I would certainly look at the Xeon's, I did not realise the price difference before.
 
We will find out later if its worth it, I have it now in my hands and will install in the server later today.

I did have to buy a £10 graphics card however so I can set up windows etc..... then im planning on removing the graphics card and just running the server with no graphics card and remote desktop to it as I normally do.
 
Combat squirrel said:
We will find out later if its worth it, I have it now in my hands and will install in the server later today.

I did have to buy a £10 graphics card however so I can set up windows etc..... then im planning on removing the graphics card and just running the server with no graphics card and remote desktop to it as I normally do.
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Will your board even POST without a graphics adapter?
 
Lazder said:
Xeon 1230 pretty much makes "non-K" processors look useless, unless you want the IGP which it does not have, but is it worth it?
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Well it looks like if you need quicksync for video encoding ... and a lot of ppl do make use of it, particularly if you convert video from one format to another for use on a mobile device ... then Core i5 non-K sku will do the job better than a Xeon as hyperthreading is likely to be less of an asset over quicksync.

If you just want pure compute performance and don't do any kind of video encoding then a Xeon might be the better choice and will also give you 4 extra PCI-E lanes which could potentially give you better I/O to some PCI-E conencted devices.

Xeon doesn't make non-K sku processors useless but for you it might be, but that doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. There are still key differences and it's 'horses for courses'. Either you're paying for quicksync and IGP, or you don't but you get hyper-threading and an extra 4 PCI-E lanes, but you still need to add the cost of a discrete graphics card on top, whether you like it or not.
 
Dirtyganker said:
Well it looks like if you need quicksync for video encoding ... and a lot of ppl do make use of it, particularly if you convert video from one format to another for use on a mobile device ... then Core i5 non-K sku will do the job better than a Xeon as hyperthreading is likely to be less of an asset over quicksync.
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According to the benchies the E3-1230-V2 beats both the i5 2500K and i7 2600K in Cinebench and Handbrake tests so it should take the non K ones too, or did you mean a different type of encoding?
 
ubersonic said:
According to the benchies the E3-1230-V2 beats both the i5 2500K and i7 2600K in Cinebench and Handbrake tests so it should take the non K ones too, or did you mean a different type of encoding?
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But were these tests configured to use the Lucid software in order to leverage quicksync? You can enable/disable it on the fly.
 
Can someone explain to me how to use quick-sync? :D I paid for 2700K so I want to make full use of the IGP too... a lot of people say that quicksync makes fast conversion but is it really faster than my 560ti with CUDA enabled??

Sorry I`am just a noob at this IGP stuff...

I use Xilisoft Video Converter, it does strain all 8 threads and with CUDA enabled it takes few minutes to convert a DVD.
 
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