Xonar DG Bricked?

[Orison]

Hi all,

Further to my last posts, got my new pc up and running, sound setup as follows:

Asus Xonar DG -> (via a good quality minijack to 2xRCA cable) -> Amp -> (Chord Silverscreen speaker cable) -> Denon bookshelves.

I've played around with both a baby tripath amp (an Amptastic mini-T) and a beefier Marantz PM7001. Generally having fun and enjoying comparing their sonic deliery etc etc.

But I'm digressing.

Just now I have noticed that, when I plug either my headphones or an amp into the rear green output jack (i.e. the 2 channel analog output) of my Xonar DG soundcard, I get an unpleasant low-level electrical noise. It's hard to describe, not just a hiss, but like a weird electrical intereference sound, with intermittent ticks, a low hum etc.

This seems to have come on suddenly, or at least, I hadn't noticed it before, and though not loud it's very pronounced.

With an amp plugged in and dialled all the way down on the physical volume control knob, the sound goes away; but if the amp has any more than a quarter-turn of volume (not enough to make the speakers loud) the sound is present, and remains the same volume regardless of the setting of the software volume control in Windows.

The sound is present on headphones regardless of the software volume control (and I don't have mute or a physical control on my headphones).

The sound doesn't come through if you plug the headphone/amp into one of the other jacks (though correspondingly you get no sound output either).

If I use the Front Panel headphone jack, my headphones don't have any of the crackling/hiss. It's silent when it should be silent.

I have tried:
-opening up my case and re-seating my Xonar DG card.
-moving the card from one PCI slot on the motherboard to the other
-unplugging the link to the front audio panel
-removing the Asus Xonar DG drivers and using the third-party "fixed" Xonar Unified Drivers
-deactivating onboard sound on my motherboard

None of that has worked, hiss is the same.

I tried plugging the headphones into my motherboard's onboard sound to see if it might be a problem "further up the line." I could hear a tiny bit of hiss when the headphones were dialled up on the Windows software volume control, and it sounded similar, but the effect was far far less pronounced.

My conclusion: the rear green output jack on my Xonar DG is bricked.

I'm a bit concerned though that I might be wrong / missing something here, so would welcome any advice and suggestions. I am thinking perhaps I should just buy a new sound card (like a Xonar DS or, pushing the boat out, an STX), but am a bit worried about shelling out for a new card only to find the problem repeats itself.

-Could it be some sort of interference from my other components - motherboard or PSU? (I heard there can be issues with PSUs, but I am going to assume it's unlikely as I have a brand new Corsair AX750 in the system, and I think it's less likely to be defective than the soundcard, which was taken out of a system last year and sat in a box since waiting for the new build).

-Could my amp have somehow damaged the soundcard? Or could my soundcard somehow damage my amp / headphones?

-Is there something else I'm missing?

Also, would appreciate some advice on whether to go for a new soundcard, or just use the optical-out on the DG and get an inexpensive DAC second hand instead.

Thanks all for your advice and sorry for long post.

 

[Marsman]

Someone else had this problem some time back. He was getting interference with the sockets on the card itself, but the front audio was fine. Normally, it's the other way round. I would expect if the card is picking up EMI, this will be heard whichever connection is used, front or rear. I'm not sure if it is possible for EMI to affect only the connections on the card itself, and not the front audio connector. When using the front audio connector, you are still using the card, so it's a little specific for only certain parts of the card to be affected. A grounding issue with the rear connections on the card itself is a possibility, although I would expect any grounding problem to affect the whole card.

Have you changed anything in the PC around the time this interference started?

The sound card can't damage the amp or headphones. I'm sure you will find they work fine if you connect them to another device, unless it's a crazy co-incidence that both amp and headphones develop a fault at the same time. Even so, highly unlikely that will be anything to do with the sound card. You'll murder your hearing long before you can damage the headphones with max gain and volume from the sound card.

Another possibility is a fault with the card. I don't know how likely that is. I would expect any fault to affect the whole card, not just a portion of it.

 

[Orison]

I have been thinking along the same lines Marsman.

I don't think it could be from a new component, I only assembled this pc a few days ago and tonight's the first time I've noticed the crackle (no new components, no new software in that time). The crackle could, however, have been there since the very beginning and just gone unnoticed.

I am still concerned that if it's EMI interference from somewhere else, then buying a new card would be an expensive waste of money; the fact that the front panel isn't affected is giving me some confidence.

Is there some way I could double-check whether it's a grounding issue? Though as you say, it would be very odd for it not to have affected the whole card.

I am more or less 100% sure it's not the amp / headphones / cables at fault, I may plug my smartphone into the system via the minijack-RCA cable just to double-check.

I suspect it is a fault with the card. I thought perhaps heat would be an issue, but discounted that because (1) the system is well cooled and doesn't get at all hot and (2) again, only specific area of the card affected.

I realise that it's unusual, but the fact that it's specifically the one port makes me think perhaps a dodgy connection, loose blob of solder or somesuch could be to blame.

I will persevere trying to find a solution or some documentation of the issue, but I think I may be left with the choice of either getting a new card or going the DAC route.

So that begs the question, soundcard or DAC? (Recommendations?)

PS: Thanks Marsman for putting my fears at rest about the soundcard/amp b0rking one another.

 

[Marsman]

If you plug headphones or amp into say the rear speakers connection, is there still interference? Obviously that's not ideal, as anything connection to the rears won't have the same options or the same sound quality, but if it's a dodgy/faulty connection for the main stereo one, you should get no interference issues with that.

 

[AbsenceJam]

Are you able to do a bit of dis-assembly? Remove other cards, or try the motherboard outside of the case - it'd let you know if some sort of interference is happening right at that point.

You can also try the other jacks, play something with 5.1+ sound with your card set for this, or remap channels.

 

[Kei]

If it's anything like mine, it'll be a ground loop which is picking up noise from within the computer, particularly off the graphics card. With the volume up around 50% (v. loud for me) I get a fair bit of noise. A constant high pitched whine with buzzing and ticking depending on what i'm doing, scrolling on web pages and games are the worst for buzzing. My solution was to balance the signal and then unbalance it rather than use an iffy ground loop isolator. A sonifex red box RB-BL2 would do the job, but i imagine it's a tad too expensive for most. My test for working out whether it was a ground loop or not was to pull the earth pin on my amp, but I imagine your amps are double insulated with no earth pin in the plug. It is possible that your problems stem from the pci slot on the motherboard as i had quality issues using the one slot, try moving it to another. (using RMAA with the output to the amp and then from a tape out on the amp back to the line/mic input on the card will show you how its performing)

 

[Orison]

Hi all,

Thanks very much for your input so far, it's been really helpful.

Bit of an update. From what Kei describes I think what I'm hearing is probably ground loop feedback. When plugged into an amp, the feedback kicks in when the physical volume control gets up to near halfway. There's an audible fuzz sound from the speakers as it kicks in, then you get the buzz/ticks/hums and so on.

For now my solution is to turn the software volume control up to the 85-90 range (I'm not sure where you're supposed to set it when you're outputting a signal to amp, I originally had it dialled to 50 - can I just stick it on 100? Does it make any difference at all?)

When the software volume is set that high, then I can dial the physical volume on the amp as far as I need to before it reaches the point where the feedback kicks in.

I will just have to use the headphones via the front panel for now. I imagine purists would say this has consequences for audio quality, but TBH my headphones are the limiting factor at the minute and I don't think I would notice any difference in the signal quality.

For the future, I have looked around online and the consensus seems to be that the best way to avoid noise and feedback from internal pc comonents would be to get an external DAC and link it to the pc via optical-out (the Xonar DG has an optical SPDIF PCM output which I believe would suit).

So that's my next step. I have been relegated to using the mini-T on my pc (wife was so impressed with the Marantz amp that it's been seized for use downstairs), so I reckon it might be an idea to find a DAC with an integrated headphone amp (no headphone amp on the mini-T).

Time to trawl the reviews again!

It seems getting into digital hi-fi draws some apt comparisons with cans of worms / Pandora's box...

 

[Kei]

Keep your computer volume set as high as possible and you amp gain as low as possible, as the noise is being picked up in between the two. A dac should solve the problems but it takes away the need for the sound card.