Xonar DG - ultimate budget headphone card?

It should work for 5.1 over analogue cables but for optical it will only do 5.1 for pre-encoded content like DVDs etc.
 
benjo said:
I've got a pair of Goldring DR50's, using onboard sound (Realtek HD).

Would something like this Xonar make a noticable difference? I don't really know what to expect.

Thanks.
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Probably. I found amplification helped the DR50s a bit but it's not night and day or anything. Also there's Dolby Headphone, which your onboard may or may not have. It works very well with DR50s.

Celebryn said:
My speakers do not support optical just a plug for front left/right, plug for rear left/right etc.

This still ok?

Was looking at the Xonar DS7.1. This be better do you think or other way round?
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Assuming you have 5:1, not 7.1, speakers, I suspect the DG will be fine. Still maybe wait for reviews eh? The DG is pretty sure to be considerably better than the DS for headphone use.
 
setter said:
Using a DX here, with the built in headphone amp would the DG be an improvement over the DX? Have a pair of goldring ns 1000's arriving this week.
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I expect so. Having said that, the NS1000s can be pretty temperamental about which amp to use.

You will find that unamped, the NS1000s sound very detailed with ANR on. Passive mode will have more bass but it will swamp the other frequencies, leading to an overall muddy sound. Adequate amplification restores the detail tha you get in active mode when you run the headphones passively. It's a decent advantage because ANR introduces a slight hiss and requires AAA batteries.

Not all headphone amps do the trick though. A safe option would be to get a FiiO e5. It's a cheap amp but does a very good job with the NS1000s, plus it recharges on USB and lasts ages so is very cheap and convenient to run.

It remains to be seen how good the amp on the DG is. I've heard much more expensive amps than the e5 do rather badly with NS1000s in passive mode.


Celebryn said:
I have to admit that I miss EAX/extras in a way. I remember having it on for the first time in Baldurs gate and hearing the echoes while I was underground. It really adds to emersion for me :)
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EAX support for legacy games is a bit hit and miss on Xonar. It works some of the time. I found I wasn't able to enable it in Rome: Total War, Medieval II: Total War or Theif: Deadly Shadows. If you're really interested in EAX, you might be better with a Creative X-Fi card. The cheapest option would be an OEM X-Fi SB0770 (or various other SB077x variants) 2nd hand or via auction.
 
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Boozebeard said:
What exactly does a headphone amp do?
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It literally amplifies headphones, just like a speaker amp amplifier speakers. The first job is to make the headphones go loud enough.

That's the easy part. Then comes making headphones sound better, although I prefer to think of it as reaching their potential. Different headphones have different electrical characteristics. Some are high or low impedance. Both can be demanding for an amp. Low impedance headphones can draw quite a high current. High impedance headphones tend to need quite high voltage swing. Some headphones need both. When this is inadequate headphones usually start losing clarity or perhaps sound too muddy or sound too thin.

There's also the issue of clipping, when the amp is basically maxing out part way through the headphone drivers creating a sound vibration wave. This can produce rather unpredictable sound depending on frequency and can theoretically result in damage to the headphone drivers. Well designed, less powerful, amps avoid this by not letting the volume control take them to their theoretical max - otherwise it's down to user controls. If your headphones distort at higher volume it could be clipping.

There is also something called 'gain', which tends to affect the loudness range where the amp is effective. It can be thought of as an input to output level multiplier. If the gain is unsuitable for particular headphones it can be difficult to find a comfortable or pleasurable listening volume and they'll either be too quiet at max volume or immediately too loud at very low volume. The Xonar cards with built in amps have an adjustable gain setting.

Another less important factor is amps adding their own flavour or colour to the sound. Ideally, an amp would just be neutral (or 'transparent') and allow the characteristics of the headphones to shine. In practice, many amps also add bass or harmonics etc that some people find pleasing.
 
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Robbie G said:
I still don't understand what makes a dedicated headphone amp so great. The card amplifies everything headphone or not, otherwise you wouldn't hear anything. Stick your headphones into the headphone jack on any sound card, it's amplified. So what's so great?
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You're right in that anything that can drive headphones at all is amplifying them. Standard soundcard line outs are fine if your headphones are really easy to drive.

If the amp is inadequate the headphones may:
- not be loud enough - this is mainly related to the amp's gain setting which literally amplifies the input signal.
- not reach their potential - so the sound can be less clear, or lacking at certain frequencies because the drivers aren't responding as they should. High impedance headphones need strong voltage swing to sound their best. Low impedance headphones can need lots of current. Some headphones need both. Without either adequate voltage or current the headphones don't sound at their best.
- Distort / clip. You will have heard bass clipping. It can be rumbly, farty bass like on a boy-racer's car sub driven by a cheap amp. It can be harder to detect at high frequency, where it procudes artifical harmonics etc. This is basically when the amp is failing to achieve the volume you've set for your headphones and the speaker / driver just comes to an abrupt halt rather than continuing through the wave form. This may cause permanent damage to the drivers in some situations. It usually happens when the gain and volume control are set beyond the amp's physical capabilties.
 
To be honest I've had my NS1000s a long time now. Been bitten by the upgraditis bug a few times now and tried to 'upgrade' a few times every time deciding to keep them. IMO it would take about £100 to match them and £140 to clearly beat them, notwithstanding other occasional discounts.

They have a few flaws but that just makes them flawed gems really. I'd be really interested to hear how they do with the amp on the DG as I've heard several amps that don't drive them well in passive mode.
 
If the GD does a good job of driving the NS1000s, you may not need the E5 for PC use. If you do get both, I'd be interested to hear about the performance of the DG's headphone amp vs the E5.

<goes to grab some bits and pieces>

Right - just listening to Combinations of FiiO e5, Sansa Clip (non +) 4GB and NS1000s now.

As PMPs go, my Sansa Clip doesn't do a horrendous job with the NS1000s in passive mode - much better than most soundcard headphone outs I've heard at driving the them. The FiiO e5 notably improves things though. It tightens up the detail across the frequency range - particularly in the bass department - and adds a hint of space to the soundstage compared to the Sansa alone.

With the NS1000s in active noise cancelling mode the difference between just the clip and adding the E5 is much more subtle. There's still just a perceptible improvement in detail and soundstage with the FiiO though.

With the E5 and the clip, there is perhaps a touch more 'sizzle' to the treble with ANR on rather than off. Sound signature is very slightly warmer with the ANR off. Detail and soundstage improves very slightly with ANR on.

As ever, there's a very slight hiss from the ANR when it's turned on. If you want to listen hiss free to the headphones potential, you'll want to use the E5 with the clip.

Edit: N/B The above testing was conducted with a variety of music in 320 kb/s mp3 format pre-encoded with Dolby Headphone (using Foobar2000 with .dll from PowerDVD Ultra 9). A few non - Dolby Headphone tracks were also tested for comparison.
 
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I'd go for NS1000, they seem to be capable of a little more detail and bass punch than the DR150s. Better soundstage with Dolby Heaphone too.

Still have both. They are both good headphones although my DR150s get little use now as I have Senn HD600s too. I kind of view the DR150 as a 'poor man's' HD600 and it's surprising how close it gets in sound quality. I much prefer the DR150s to the Senns closer to their price like the HD555 and HD595.
 
I like both my HD600s and NS1000s a lot. The HD600s are more capable socially, but need a decent amp to push past the NS1000s.

Although the NS1000s are quite fussy about which amps drive them well in passive mode, I was very fortunate to stumble across trying them with the FiiO E5. If you wanted a combination to demonstrate what a huge difference an amp can make to headphones, this would be good candidate. Added to that, the ANR (effectively using a built in amp) mode sounds pretty good out of most sources, although thanks to the 300 ohm input impedance, they can lose detail if driven by something that lacks good voltage swing. The hiss in ANR mode can be a pain if you listen to anything with quiet passages.

The HD600s certainly don't sound their best out of an e5. They sound alright out of most sources and amps, certainly not the bloated mess that is inadequately driven passive NS1000s. I currently have my HD600s plugged into a Mackie mixer, which at least manages to drive them cleanly. My e5, cmoy, SU-DH1, bravo tube amp and Sony AV amp all failed to do that (although I must admit I didn't notice the distortions at first). I was going to get a higher spec amp to go with the HD600s but then thought to try the mixer I use for guitar monitoring and was pleasantly surprised. By comparison the NS1000s in passive mode sound dull and slow out of it (same with the Bravo although both are good for bringing out detail on the NS1000s in active mode). Obviously the two headphones have rather different amplification requirements. It's why I advocate matching amps to particular headphones. It's not just down to sound-signature synergy.

So... I'm interested to hear how the DG does with passive NS1000s. It might be great or might fail miserably.
 
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Rezolve said:
Having a problem though, plugged in my PC 350's to the front panel connectors and get a buzzing/ squeaking sound every time I move my mouse (razer deathadder).
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That's EMI (electro-magnetic interference). It's either due to poor shielding on the card, or more likely poor shielding on your case's internal audio cables. Plug into the back of the soundcard and see if you get the same thing.
 
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One of principal NS1000 + e5 'offenders' on Head-Fi is me. I have a different user name there. Wouldn't want to give the impression that it's more of a consensus view than it actually is.
 
alexhull24 said:
Uriel, anything better in terms of headphone amps sub £25 you've used with the NS1000s?
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Nope. To be fair, the E5 is the only dedicated sub £25 amp I've heard with the NS1000s. It does a better job with them in passive mode than any of my sub £70 amps. I have a CMOY amp that does roughly as well but that cost more than the E5 anyway.
 
I very much doubt that it's the impedance that makes the NS1000s difficult to drive in passive mode. With active mode they have a built in, battery powered amp but still have a high input impedance so they benefit from an amp with strong voltage swing. I can just hear audible differences between amps in active mode but it's subtle, with better amps bringing out a hint more detail and making the soundstage more 3D. Current requirement is probably quite low.

Passive mode has lower impedance, so probably not the same requirements in terms of voltage swing. However current requirements are probably not far off whatever's being drawn from the AAA battery used for active mode - maybe even more.

Gain is not much of an issue. I've never had a problem with getting them to run loud enough in passive mode. Taming the bass and bringing out the detail is what it's about. In that respect I think the NS1000s may be quite unusual, hence the number of amps and soundcards etc that utterly fail to run them well.
 
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Unfortunately, it sounds like the amp isn't beefy enough for the NS1000s in passive mode. Have you tried playing with the gain settings on the amp?
 
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