XP OEM Help

gareth170 · 29 Apr 2007 at 15:57

Athanor said:
Burnsey and others advised him and got a sarcy answer for their troubles.

yes we do try to advise people in the right way but we get stupid sarcy comments..

richardbirks · 29 Apr 2007 at 16:21

gareth170 said:
1. upgradeing the cpu is fine.

2. if your saying its ok to use the same oem license on a different motherboard then whats the point of retail??

The OEM license is tied to the same computer; it isn't tied to your motherboard, or your CPU, or your memory etc. It's locked to the computer as a single entity. The retail version doesn't have that restriction. In any case, trying to define what constitutes your computer is very contentious and that that's why trying to define what's ok and what isn't concerning the system-builder OEM license is open to interpretation.

Microsoft work out whether activation is required by examining unique components in your machine, such as your CPU serial number, the burned in MAC address in your network card, the manufacturer of your RAM, the name of your BIOS provider etc. You have to re-activate if you change your system significantly.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/evaluate/xpactiv.mspx

Let me drop two quotes from the above link from Microsoft themselves:

"Every single piece of hardware could be changed on a PC with SLP and no reactivation would be required — even the motherboard could be replaced as long as the replacement motherboard was original equipment manufactured by the OEM and retained the proper BIOS. In the unlikely scenario that the BIOS information does not match, the PC would need to be activated within 30 days by contacting the Microsoft activation center via the Internet or telephone call — just as in a retail scenario."

"Finally, the Microsoft activation clearinghouse system will automatically allow activation to occur over the Internet four times in one year on substantially different hardware. This last feature was implemented to allow even the most savvy power users to make changes to their systems and, if they must reactivate, do so over the Internet rather than necessitating a telephone call."

It's clearly not as black and white as: change your motherboard, get a new license. I'd say what Andy is doing falls into that grey area in Eula, yes he is changing his system significantly; but what choice does he have? RAM has moved on from DDR to DDR2, graphics from AGP to PCI-E and so on. There isn't an incremental upgrade path available anymore.

My answer, ring Microsoft up, be honest - tell them you've upgraded your motherboard and CPU (after all you've no choice about the RAM and Gfx card) and let them decide. You shouldn't have to blag it if you're within the terms of the EULA.

--
Richard.

richardbirks · 29 Apr 2007 at 16:25

Athanor said:
Unfortunatly it's less to do with plain English, it's more to do with to the OP being happy to be dishonest.

Yeah, quite obviously the language comes across as if he's trying to be dishonest: "how can I blag?"

But hang on, before we all jump in make rash character judgements, I'm not commenting about his honesty and I'm not pretending to be judge and jury; should he really have to buy another license? If so, why?

I say upgrade the comments on his existing system, XP will figure out drivers for the new motherboard and the like then it will make the decision if he needs to reactivate - if he does need to reactivate and he can, then fine. If he does, but Microsoft don't let him, them he should ring up and just be honest.

Push comes to shove, sell the bulk of the components with the license - as Microsoft deem those components to constitute "the computer" and his OEM license is tied to those components and then get another license...

...or use Linux

But to jump on the OP like he's commiting grand larceny using words like fraud and unlicensed is a little bit over the top don't you think given how many people don't even bother to buy any form of licensed copy of their OS.

--
Richard.

csmager · 29 Apr 2007 at 16:37

richardbirks said:
Let me drop two quotes from the above link from Microsoft themselves:

"Every single piece of hardware could be changed on a PC with SLP and no reactivation would be required — even the motherboard could be replaced as long as the replacement motherboard was original equipment manufactured by the OEM and retained the proper BIOS. In the unlikely scenario that the BIOS information does not match, the PC would need to be activated within 30 days by contacting the Microsoft activation center via the Internet or telephone call — just as in a retail scenario."

This isn't stricly OEM, it's SLP. This is an installation of Windows that doesn't require activating as there's a string in the BIOS that says 'yes, this is a Dell PC' or similar. If you changed the motherboard to a non-dell one, then this would jump out and ask for reactivation. Anything else, and you'd never have any activation issue.

"Finally, the Microsoft activation clearinghouse system will automatically allow activation to occur over the Internet four times in one year on substantially different hardware. This last feature was implemented to allow even the most savvy power users to make changes to their systems and, if they must reactivate, do so over the Internet rather than necessitating a telephone call."

That's just saying what will cause a prompt for reactivation - and i'm fairly sure (from the context it was taken in the article) that applies to Retail. Many have commented that any change in hardware results in a phone call (rather than automatic activation) on OEM licenses.

My answer, ring Microsoft up, be honest - tell them you've upgraded your motherboard and CPU (after all you've no choice about the RAM and Gfx card) and let them decide. You shouldn't have to blag it if you're within the terms of the EULA.

Probably decent advice!

richardbirks · 29 Apr 2007 at 16:39

gareth170 said:
yes we do try to advise people in the right way but we get stupid sarcy comments..

You, in particular, didn't offer any constructive advice at all, other than to tell him he'd be activated but unlicensed.

Giving advice of the nature "you buy a new motherboard, you need a new copy of XP Pro OEM" is irresponsible, and clearly incorrect, as Microsoft's own article on technet states in very plain English.

Yes, the EULA on OEM XP Pro is complex; but we'll let Microsoft be the judge of whether he can reactivate or not.

--
Richard

csmager · 29 Apr 2007 at 16:45

richardbirks said:
Giving advice of the nature "you buy a new motherboard, you need a new copy of XP Pro OEM" is irresponsible, and clearly incorrect, as Microsoft's own article on technet states in very plain English.

It's not incorrect - in many Technet Discussions, System Builder Memos and the like, Microsoft have stated that this is their position. And as has been stated many times, Activated is not the same thing as licensed.

From the same Technet site as the misinterpreted quotes:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/sysbuild/05_0222_sb.mspx

"Q: I hate to reiterate the meeting, but you said if you upgrade a mobo in any pc you are required to purchase a new os correct?
A: Yes, the OEM OS is tied to the motherboard. So, if the motherboard fails while under warranty the license remains intact. However, if you are simply upgrading for feature or performance enhancements, you would need a new OS license."

gareth170 · 29 Apr 2007 at 16:46

richardbirks said:
The OEM license is tied to the same computer; it isn't tied to your motherboard, or your CPU, or your memory etc.

wrong!!!!!

The OEM license is tied to the motherboard.. the computer isn't just the case... i've even asked MS when i called them...

Burnsy2023 · 29 Apr 2007 at 16:48

richardbirks said:
Giving advice of the nature "you buy a new motherboard, you need a new copy of XP Pro OEM" is irresponsible, and clearly incorrect, as Microsoft's own article on technet states in very plain English.

Yes, the EULA on OEM XP Pro is complex; but we'll let Microsoft be the judge of whether he can reactivate or not.

--
Richard

You can only replace the motherboard in certain circumstances, i.e. for a motherbaord faliure under warranty. In this case, it is as simple as neededing a new license to be legal.

As he's upgrading, he's never going to be under the terms of license.

As for activation. I don't doubt that MS will give him an activation code, but that doesn't mean he has a licensed copy of the OS.

People know how to blag an activation code, but I don't think this forum is the best place to openly defraud MS. Whether you like MS' business eithics or pricing structure is irrelivant, you buy the product and you have agreed to the licensing terms.

Burnsy

Slam62 · 29 Apr 2007 at 16:54

oh what an interesting thread about oem and MS I've never heard all these arguements before. :rolleyes:

If we filter out all the usual dross, did his question actually get an answer :rolleyes:

gareth170 · 29 Apr 2007 at 16:56

richardbirks said:
You, in particular, didn't offer any constructive advice at all, other than to tell him he'd be activated but unlicensed

u have no right saying that...

i said MS would activate him but his windows would be unlicensed...

some people are so rude...

Burnsy2023 · 29 Apr 2007 at 16:58

Slam62 said:
oh what an interesting thread about oem and MS I've never heard all these arguements before.

If we filter out all the usual dross, did his question actually get an answer

I can see what you mean by me sounding like a broken record.

Not sure if the OP got answered and if they didn't this forum isn't really the best place to ask for it.

BUrnsy

Slam62 · 29 Apr 2007 at 17:00

If he doesnt lie and MS give him a code he is legal and licensed

Even if he does lie and gets licensed, he is only definitely illegal if MS can win in court and as they never take anyone to court over this type of thing one has to draw ones own conclusions.

richardbirks · 29 Apr 2007 at 17:07

csmager said:
This isn't stricly OEM, it's SLP. This is an installation of Windows that doesn't require activating as there's a string in the BIOS that says 'yes, this is a Dell PC' or similar. If you changed the motherboard to a non-dell one, then this would jump out and ask for reactivation. Anything else, and you'd never have any activation issue.

I tried looking for something from Microsoft for small-OEM's and system builders; but couldn't find anything relevant. Nothing even close.

csmager said:
That's just saying what will cause a prompt for reactivation - and i'm fairly sure (from the context it was taken in the article) that applies to Retail. Many have commented that any change in hardware results in a phone call (rather than automatic activation) on OEM licenses.

It's the weighting on the components that cause reactivation - motherboard, CPU and burned in MAC are rated quite high and changing any one will cause a request for immediate reactivation.

csmager said:
Probably decent advice!

I think Microsoft changed tack on the OEM EULA several months ago - I believe the OEM EULA says that you're licensed for use on a single computer; and left the definition of that open to interpretation - or open to them changing the interpretation as it suited them. The biggest problem with XP OEM reactivation is that you speak to seven people you'lll get seven different answers, even different pages on Microsoft give conflicting answers to what you can and can't do with it.

What about me; I'm posting this from Ubuntu Linux 7.04; it doesn't mind whose motherboard I'm running on!

--
Richard.

Burnsy2023 · 29 Apr 2007 at 17:08

Slam62 said:
If he doesnt lie and MS give him a code he is legal and licensed

Lets not get into this argument. All I say is that I can catagorically say you are wrong. Lets leave it for people to choose who they believe.

Burnsy

gareth170 · 29 Apr 2007 at 17:08

burnsy2023 said:
Not sure if the OP got answered and if they didn't this forum isn't really the best place to ask for it.

BUrnsy

they don't wanna listen anyway

Burnsy2023 · 29 Apr 2007 at 17:11

richardbirks said:
I think Microsoft changed tack on the OEM EULA several months ago - I believe the OEM EULA says that you're licensed for use on a single computer; and left the definition of that open to interpretation - or open to them changing the interpretation as it suited them. The biggest problem with XP OEM reactivation is that you speak to seven people you'lll get seven different answers, even different pages on Microsoft give conflicting answers to what you can and can't do with it.

--
Richard.

It has been based on the motherboard for a while now, and oem.microsoft.com has been pretty clear on this, although joe public don't have access.

Burnsy

Edit: Here's a copy and paste from one fo the pages:

· There is no possibility to keep the original software license after replacing the mother board after warranty period ‘ is that an official statement’

Microsoft OEM operating system software is licensed to you by your computer manufacturer to be used solely in connection with the computer hardware with which you acquired the software. The foregoing restriction is reflected in the terms under which you licensed the software. Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on your computer and maintain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software, with the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. If the motherboard is replaced, then a new computer has been created and the license of new operating system software is required.

The motherboard is the ‘essence’ of the personal computer. Without a motherboard, there is no computer. In contrast, a personal computer may, for example, function without a keyboard, a mouse or even a hard drive. Accordingly, given the nature of the motherboard with respect to the functionality of a personal computer, an exchange of the motherboard (whether an upgrade or replacement) is considered to result in a ‘new personal computer’ to which Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from another computer. Note that recovery media and/or the Microsoft hologram CD that may be supplied with a new computer may be BIOS-locked or has Windows Product Activation technology. Windows Product Activation and BIOS-locking are designed to prevent the software from being installed or transferred to a different computer system or motherboard.

To the extent you wish to license Microsoft software that can be transferred from one computer to another, software with such rights may be available through our retail channel.

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· Why doesn’t the End User License Agreement for Microsoft Windows XP Professional include a clear definition of ‘hardware’ and ‘computer’’ For example, the section ‘Software as a computer component ‘ transfer’ stipulates that the software may be used exclusively with the hardware (why not with the computer’).

There is a myriad of hardware and computing options and devices available in the marketplace. Some of the ‘computers’ currently marketed and offered by computer manufacturers have no chassis, no hard disk drive, no keyboard or other input devices. Additionally, there are computing solutions today where software may be distributed on external hardware such as a USB drive. We recognize this complexity within the terms of the End User License Agreement (EULA) by using the terms ‘hardware’ and ‘computer’ in similar ways due to the complexity of options that are available. All Microsoft Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) software is intended to be licensed and preinstalled on hardware, which in some cases is a complete computer and in other cases is a component of a computer or some other type of device ‘ each of which is considered ‘hardware.’

Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on your computer and maintain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software, with the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. If the motherboard is replaced, then a new computer has been created and the license of new operating system software is required.

The motherboard is the ‘essence’ of the personal computer. Without a motherboard, there is no computer. In contrast, a personal computer may, for example, function without a keyboard, a mouse or even a hard drive. Accordingly, given the nature of the motherboard with respect to the functionality of a personal computer, an exchange of the motherboard (whether an upgrade or replacement) is considered to result in a ‘new personal computer’ to which Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from another computer. Note that recovery media and/or the Microsoft hologram CD that may be supplied with a new computer may be BIOS-locked or has Windows Product Activation technology. Windows Product Activation and BIOS-locking are designed to prevent the software from being installed or transferred to a different computer system or motherboard.

To the extent you wish to license Microsoft software that can be transferred from one computer to another, software with such rights may be available through our retail channel.

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· Why doesn’t the license agreement include clear provisions for the situation of using the software after a failure of one component’ Wouldn’t it be simpler to provide, for example, that if the motherboard is replaced under warranty, the license may be re-activated by phone, perhaps after faxing the invoice documenting the motherboard purchase’

There is a myriad of hardware and computing options and devices available in the marketplace. Some of the ‘computers’ currently marketed and offered by computer manufacturers have no chassis, no hard disk drive, no keyboard or other input devices. There are computing solutions today where software may be distributed on external hardware such as a USB drive. This makes it difficult if not impossible to account for each and every possible situation where hardware replacement is necessary. It is our experience that the solution that each computer manufacturer provides in the event of a hardware failure also differs by component and the complexity and expense of each type of repair.

Motherboards also differ from model to model and manufacturer to manufacturer. The process of activation could not be guaranteed to work in each and every case as the motherboard gets replaced, whether under warranty or otherwise. It would be difficult, even with the manual activation acceptance process described, to ensure that the motherboard being replaced has been installed on the identical computer or device.

The motherboard is the ‘essence’ of the personal computer. Without a motherboard, there is no computer. In contrast, a personal computer may, for example, function without a keyboard, a mouse or even a hard drive. Accordingly, given the nature of the motherboard with respect to the functionality of a personal computer, an exchange of the motherboard (whether an upgrade or replacement) is considered to result in a ‘new personal computer’ to which Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from another computer. Note that recovery media and/or the Microsoft hologram CD that may be supplied with a new computer may be BIOS-locked or has Windows Product Activation technology. Windows Product Activation and BIOS-locking are designed to prevent the software from being installed or transferred to a different computer system or motherboard.

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· Is the requirement for a new license after motherboard replacements new or is it new due to the advent Product Activation’ Does this apply to older versions of Microsoft OEM operating system software’

This policy also applies to older versions of Microsoft OEM operating system software. However, many older versions do not include Windows Product Activation technology; it has only recently been addressed directly within the software.

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· Is the license activation in regards to Microsoft Product Activation (after motherboard warranty replacement) free of charge’

Microsoft has regional and, in some locations, local customer service centers to process activation requests. Telephone access numbers to these customer service centers are toll-free where available. Some countries can only be serviced with local toll numbers due to their telephony infrastructure or other issues. For very few countries, users will need to contact Microsoft by calling collect.

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· What happens if the motherboard is not replaced under warranty’ What are the activation conditions then’

An exchange of the motherboard (whether an upgrade or replacement) is considered to result in a ‘new personal computer’ to which Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from another computer. Note that recovery media and/or the Microsoft hologram CD that may be supplied with a new computer may be BIOS-locked or has Windows Product Activation technology. Windows Product Activation and BIOS-locking are designed to prevent the software from being installed or transferred to a different computer system or motherboard.

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· Why are there differences between conditions applicable to customers acquiring software from various brand computer manufacturers’ I checked with a number of them and they saw no problems with software activation after motherboard replacement.

There are no differences between terms or this policy between computer manufacturers with regard to what is required when replacing the motherboard on a computer. It is conceivable that some computer manufacturers are not adhering to the policy. It is also conceivable that in cases where such replacements occur, Windows Product Activation detects no difference between the previous motherboard and the new motherboard. This could be due to replacements with an identical motherboard, system bios or other factors which cannot be predicted or predetermined in the activation process.

richardbirks · 29 Apr 2007 at 17:20

burnsy2023 said:
It has been based on the motherboard for a while now, and oem.microsoft.com has been pretty clear on this, although joe public don't have access.

Burnsy

I dug up a link that says Microsoft sent out a memo around this time last year that says OEMs should consider that changing the motherboard is in effect creating a new computer and therefore required a new license.

However the EULA clearly states that you're licensed for use on a single computer... so Microsoft want to change your license, they redefine computer to mean motherboard, next week it might be motherboard and/or CPU; whatever gets them a bit more revenue.

I found the article just after I posted saying:

"I think Microsoft changed tack on the OEM EULA several months ago - I believe the OEM EULA says that you're licensed for use on a single computer; and left the definition of that open to interpretation - or open to them changing the interpretation as it suited them. The biggest problem with XP OEM reactivation is that you speak to seven people you'lll get seven different answers, even different pages on Microsoft give conflicting answers to what you can and can't do with it."

So quite clearly I'm now eating a big piece of humble pie, with a rather generous side serving of hat... ahem; but it just renforces what I said. To paraphrase, you buy an OEM license, you're getting a moving-goalpost EULA.

What's the answer - I don't think there is one, because there's no middle ground between OEM and full retail box copy. There is, however, that little matter of it costing another £160 or thereabouts.

--
Richard

Slam62 · 29 Apr 2007 at 17:26

Slam62 said:
If he doesnt lie and MS give him a code he is legal and licensed

Even if he does lie and gets licensed, he is only definitely illegal if MS can win in court and as they never take anyone to court over this type of thing one has to draw ones own conclusions.

Just to reiterate for balance, the eula is not a definitely a legal agreement unless a precedent has been set through a court case. (that doesnt mean it isnt though)

Whatever the case, if MS give you the key and you have told them the truth, you are legal. i.e. if they took you to court they would lose.

Burnsy2023 · 29 Apr 2007 at 17:41

richardbirks said:
So quite clearly I'm now eating a big piece of humble pie, with a rather generous side serving of hat... ahem; but it just renforces what I said. To paraphrase, you buy an OEM license, you're getting a moving-goalpost EULA.

What's the answer - I don't think there is one, because there's no middle ground between OEM and full retail box copy. There is, however, that little matter of it costing another £160 or thereabouts.

--
Richard

I wouldn't say that it was 'a constantly moving goal post' more a one time clarification. However, it does reinforce that OEM licensing isn't as easy as you might think.

Burnsy

Burnsy2023 · 29 Apr 2007 at 17:43

Slam62 said:
Just to reiterate for balance, the eula is not a definitely a legal agreement unless a precedent has been set through a court case. (that doesnt mean it isnt though)

You've got it the wrong way round. It's a legally binding contract until a court finds the terms unfair in which case MS would have to alter the agreement.

Burnsy