Yamaha RXV581

[MG42Maniac]

Looking to replace my aging Onkyo amp that I have had since 2010. It is the amp that came as part of the Onkyo HT-S5305 receiver and speaker package. It is or was a fairly decent amp. We bought a B6 OLED back in November 2016 and then RS reduced the price to £1900 within days so we received £100 Richersounds credit at our local store in Southampton. I've seen that the RXV581 is on offer at £249 at the moment, which effectively means £149 for me. It seems to review well, does anyone have this? Thoughts? Opinions on whether it would be a decent enough upgrade?

My setup is as follows:

Fronts: B&W 602 S2
Centre: B&W CC6 S2
Sub: Onkyo Supplied
Rears: Onkyo Supplied

My next change will be changing the rears to B&W 601 S2.

Would this be a good amp going forward; Would this amp have enough power to do the speakers justice? I've noticed that it is not on the list of amps to receive an HLG or DV firmware upgrade which is disappointing. Also, does not state if the bluetooth is aptx.

Thanks!

 

[FurryLemon]

I wouldn't see it as much of an upgrade really. It'll have newer tech, but in terms of actual sound quality I doubt it'll make any real difference. I'd spend a touch more and get the Denon 2300 or Marantz 5011 (basically the same internals).

 

[Hedge]

For the price it's a nice amp yeah. The Denon is a good shout if you can find one too. They are about 300 for the x 2300 which is very well specced.

I've got the Yamaha rxv781 and I prefer it over the Denon avrx 2000 it replaced. Yamahas have a nice mobile app which I use regular. The Denon one is trash.

 

[hornetstinger]

Yamaha AVR's aren't very powerful. They are reliable, and a good match with B&W (I've got a Yamaha AVR, and have used B&W 601 for a while)

As for rears, are you close to them, if so I'd be looking at the B&W surround speakers- I think they make a set of dipoles which tbh is not ideal nowaways, I'd go for bipoles.

 

[MG42Maniac]

I did consider the Denon 2300 but there is no stock in the Southampton branch. It needs to be from there for me to get my £100 credit. I'm not desperate for a new AV receiver as I'm just using ARC which is good enough as it does DTS and DTS HD. I was hoping the 581 would be a good step up for next to nothing. I think I'll hold on and wait for this years £700/800 model (4300H?) to drop next year and then pick it up. I assume it'll need to be this much for it to be a decent upgrade?

As for rears, we're moving next year so I'll have to see what the room layout is and go from there.

Thanks for the advice everyone

 

[Psycho Sonny]

My Yamaha is pretty powerful. Enough to make the house shake. I wouldn't buy anything else than a Yamaha AVR

 

[hornetstinger]

My Yamaha is pretty powerful. Enough to make the house shake. I wouldn't buy anything else than a Yamaha AVR

No they aren't powerful, not with all channels driven they aren't. They're fine in 2 channel mode, but with more than 2 speakers connected, power ratings drop massively.

I would not use a Yamaha AVR for the main system. I just use one for the computer and since that's 1M it's plenty (even though they're 4 ohm) But no way with my main 4 ohm speakers.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Seem to power my 5.1 setup with more than enough power to blow the speakers. It is a top of the range version though

 

[hornetstinger]

Seem to power my 5.1 setup with more than enough power to blow the speakers. It is a top of the range version though

You mean running into distortion and clipping. The top of the range $2500 Yamaha AVR had only 35W per channel.

 

[Hedge]

No they aren't powerful, not with all channels driven they aren't. They're fine in 2 channel mode, but with more than 2 speakers connected, power ratings drop massively.

I would not use a Yamaha AVR for the main system. I just use one for the computer and since that's 1M it's plenty (even though they're 4 ohm) But no way with my main 4 ohm speakers.

I assume youre some kind of audiophile because my RXV781 seems to power my Dali 5.1 system comfortably for myself and everyone who's visited my house and experienced it. What do you use yourself and what is classed as a good output?

Can you read the spec sheet here and tell me what mine would be getting?

http://www.superfi.co.uk/images/manualbrochure/rx-v781_rx-v681_manual_english.pdf

(page 152)

how much do they become when driving all 5?

 

[hornetstinger]

I assume youre some kind of audiophile because my RXV781 seems to power my Dali 5.1 system comfortably for myself and everyone who's visited my house and experienced it. What do you use yourself and what is classed as a good output?

Can you read the spec sheet here and tell me what mine would be getting?

http://www.superfi.co.uk/images/manualbrochure/rx-v781_rx-v681_manual_english.pdf

(page 152)

how much do they become when driving all 5?

For the computer system I use a Yamaha 671.
For the main home theatre I use a ATI 2003 and ATI 2004. 200W into 8 ohm. 4 ohm speakers, so about 270W into that.
http://www.ati-amp.com/AT2000.php

For the Hi-fi I use two, two channel power amplifiers, 100W into 8ohm. 4 ohm speakers, so about 150W into that.

This Yamaha was tested at 42W with 7 channels driven. That's with only 7 channels, it's a 9 channel AVR so with 9 channels driven you'll get less than 42W
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a2040-av-receiver-review-test-bench

That is several steps above yours and my Yamaha AVR.

One way to work out is from maxium power consumption, so if it's 300W, divide that by 9. That's with 100 % efficiency, which is impossible.

If your Yamaha AVR has pre-outs I'd add a 3 channel amplifier and use that to drive your L,C,R to help the Yamaha out, and that'll free up far more power for the sides and rears.

"I assume youre some kind of audiophile"

Not really, I just like fairly good stuff, some bought second hand. Nothing like the mega high end, but it's pretty affordable if you get a bargain.

You can't really tell from the figures (because the figures are inflated) what true output is, the only way is to look at other Yamaha AVR's as a range and guestimate. If a $2500 Yamaha AVR gives a crappy 35W per channel, you can sure hell the $250 Yamaha won't give that or more.

They seem fine in 2 channel mode, as you can see with that Yamaha above, 169W in 2 channel (excellent) But 42W in 7 channel mode. That shows the power supply is not up to the task.

 

[FurryLemon]

30-40w per channel is fine for the average home cinema setup. Most people have neighbors, so are not in the position to be watching films at reference level, which is where the lack of power will become noticeable.

 

[hornetstinger]

30-40w per channel is fine for the average home cinema setup. Most people have neighbors, so are not in the position to be watching films at reference level, which is where the lack of power will become noticeable.

I don't care if you think 30W-40W is "fine" the figures are inflated, the power supply is under specced, and if I was spending £2000 on a AVR no way in hell I would accept sub 50W power per channel- when you can buy budget power amplifiers which'll output rated output with all channels driven.

Also it's better to have more power than not enough, because that is when you damage treble drivers. Whenever treble drivers have gone it's with lower powered amplifiers (Yamaha AVR for one, and 60W on another amp)

 

[FurryLemon]

AVRs are a compromise.

To do home cinema properly costs more then most people will spend.

 

[hornetstinger]

AVRs are a compromise.

To do home cinema properly costs more then most people will spend.

£2200 is not a low sum to accept comprimises. I would expect a £2200 AVR to have decent power output with all channels driven.

Also I would rather keep the two seperate anyway, as processing advances so does input switching so rather buy av pre-amp then power amplifiers. Typically you keep power amplifiers maximum 20 years. You won't be using the same av pre for 20 years.

Actually to do proper home cinema costs less than you think. A AVR + 3 channel power amplifer is only slightly more, but you get many advantages.

I've changed my power amplifiers less number of times I've changed the av pre/processing side, so the extra outlay pays out. And I wanted to, I could still have been using the older power amplifiers- at best just need a service replace power supply capacitors, check the fets for condition, dry joints etc.

My av pre is pre HDMI I use a HDMI splitter. Don't have HD audio, just regular coaxial/pcm. Replacing the av pre is not priority at the moment, I bought those ATI amplifiers as I recently bought some high end speakers which are 4ohm and didn't want to risk using older amplifiers on them.

 

[FurryLemon]

AVRs sacrifice power for connectivity, that's just the way it is. The higher end brands do better (Arcam/Anthem), but they're 4-5k each for the top end models and offer a lot less functionality then the budget and mid range brands do.

 

[hornetstinger]

AVRs sacrifice power for connectivity, that's just the way it is. The higher end brands do better (Arcam/Anthem), but they're 4-5k each for the top end models and offer a lot less functionality then the budget and mid range brands do.

But you're paying for a product that in 5 years is worthless, and pre side is out of date, so you need to re-buy it, and re-buy the amplifiers as well. Just seems false economy.

Plus the risk of a AVR blowing your speakers (I'd had that) It's not worth it, even a little because if my speakers are damaged from lack of power the parts are not availalbe.

"that's just the way it is."

Then you are accepting major compromise, with all the others.

Plus going into seperates can be done in stages. AVR, then AVR and poweramps, then AV pre and power amplifers.

Next update option for me is Marantz AV7703 or similar.

 

[james.miller]

Yamaha are particularly bad when it comes to all channel driven figures. Yes receivers are a compromise but they don't all compromise on power to the extent most Yamahas do. Yamaha just happen to be the worst of the mainstream manufacturers in that regard. My onkyo will manage 100w in to all 7 channels at 8 ohms and its no four thousand pound amp that's for sure. I would expect it has very little headroom at that sort of output though- can't imagine it would output much more in to a 4 ohm loads as it would be lower supply limited at that point.

 

[hornetstinger]

Yamaha are particularly bad when it comes to all channel driven figures. Yes receivers are a compromise but they don't all compromise on power to the extent most Yamahas do. Yamaha just happen to be the worst of the mainstream manufacturers in that regard. My onkyo will manage 100w in to all 7 channels at 8 ohms and its no four thousand pound amp that's for sure. I would expect it has very little headroom at that sort of output though- can't imagine it would output much more in to a 4 ohm loads but at that sort of output it's very much power supply limited.

yeah some amps are better than others. Pioneer, Denon & Marantz have decent output all channels driven.

 

[Hedge]

Well after looking at prices of them Ati amps you mentioned I think I can continue to live with what I've got in our living room.

Could spend 2 grand on adding ceiling speakers, replastering and re decorating then getting a more noticeable impact than driving my fronts harder lol.