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Yet another Intel CPU security vulnerability!

Associate
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Sorry, this is simply not true. There are two proof of concept demos for two different exploits, neither are run within Firefox, or any browser.

RIDL JavaScript - The exploit recovers a text string which is being repeatedly re-posted. The JavaScript is run locally, outside the browser using the SpiderMonkey JavaScript engine. We know this because the command is taskset -c 7 ./js ridl-shell.js

ZombieLoad Browser Monitoring - The exploit recovers the the current URL if it is refreshed sufficient times within a defined time interval. The binary code is executed locally, outside the browser. We know this because the command is taskset -c 1 /lb_look 0

In both cases, the researchers have used local system tools to identify core IDs and lock the victim and attack processes to the same physical core. They do not detail how this could be achieved from within a browser.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Sandbox See that trust boundary, security Sandboxing makes use of child processes as a security boundary. The security hole bypasses security boundaries. You have made the most pointless point ever.

From the white paper, the one you never read, "Moreover, we present a number of practical exploits that leak data across many common security boundaries (JavaScript sandbox, process,kernel, VM, SGX, etc.). " "Finally, we assume the attacker can only run unprivileged code on the victim system (e.g., JavaScript sandbox, user process, VM, or SGX enclave)"

"As shown in the listing, the code is normal, straight-line code without invalid accesses (or, indeed, error suppression), which, as we will show, can also be implemented in managed languages such as JavaScript."

" Not to mention that such attacks can be built even from a sandboxed environment such as JavaScript in the browser, where the attacker has limited capabilities compared to a native environment."

"G. JavaScript attacks To further demonstrate the implications of RIDL, we show that RIDL can be exploited even within restricted sandboxed environments such as JavaScript. In recent years, browser vendors have been proactively working on mitigations to protect against side-channel attacks [62],[63], [64], [65]—speculative execution side channels, in particular. For instance, Chrome fast-forwarded the deployment of process-per-origin [63] as a mitigation against Spectre attacks. However, these mitigation efforts assumet hat data cannot leak across privilege boundaries, and fail to prevent in-flight data from being leaked with RIDL.Building a RIDL attack from the browser requires a high level of control over the instructions executed by the JavaScript engine. Conveniently,WebAssembly allows us to generate code which meets these requirements and is available as a standard feature in modern browsers. We found that we can use WebAssembly in both Firefox and Chrome to generate machine code which we can use to perform RIDL-based attacks. Furthermore, all the major browsers try to reduce the memory footprint of the WebAssembly heap by relying on demand paging [60], which we can use to perform an attack along the lines of the one previously presented in Listing1. That is, we can rely on the valid page fault generated by our memory access totrigger an exception and spill the in-flight data.Generating the correct machine code and triggering the page fault are relatively straightforward. However,constructing a reliable feedback channel for speculative attacks within the browser presents some challenges. The absence of the clflush instruction forced our implementation to rely on anEvict + Reload channel to leak the in-flight data. Since the process of evicting entries from the L1D cache makes extensive use of the LFBs—due to TLB misses as well as filling cache lines—this adds a significant source of noise. We also need to ensure that the TLB entries for our reload buffer are still present after the eviction process, adding another source of noise to our attack. Finally, we need a reliable high-resolution timer to measure cache evictions for our Evict + Reload channel.While built-in high-resolution timers have been disabled as part of browser mitigations against side-channel at-tacks [64], [63], prior work has demonstrated a variety of techniques to craft new high-resolution timers [66],[56], [60], such as Shared ArrayBuffer [60] and GPU-based counters [56]. The SharedArrayBuffer feature was recently re-enabled in Google Chrome, after the introduction of Site Isolation [67], [68]. Mozilla Firefox is currently working on a similar Process Isolation strategy [69]. Despite these challenges, we successfully implemented a proof-of-concept exploit on top of Firefox’ SpiderMonkey JavaScript engine to reliably leak data from a victim process running on the same system. For simplicity, our exploit uses an old-style built-in high-resolution timer in SpiderMonkey to measure cache evictions. When targeting a victim process repeatedly writing a string to memory, our exploit running in the JavaScript sandbox on a different hardware thread is capable of leaking the victim string ata rate of ~1B/s. We also implemented a high-resolution timer in Chrome using WebAssembly threads which provided sufficient accuracy for our Evict + Reload channel. At the time of writing, any site can opt into this functionality using the ‘origin trials’ system. Although we do not currently have a reliable RIDL exploit running inside unmodified Chrome, we believe that our results already cast doubt on the effectiveness of site isolation as a mitigation against side-channel attack..." https://mdsattacks.com/files/ridl.pdf

The admin on this forum is weak normally you lot would be banned by now.
 
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Soldato
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You have re-posted the same excerpt where they clearly state they used the SpiderMonkey JavaScript engine (which is a standalone engine) and could not make it work inside the Chrome browser. Their own video examples clearly demonstrate that the code is being run outside the browser. Yet you still keep posting that they ran the code inside the browser.

The requirement to run the processes on the same core requires the use of system tools to identify and set affinity. This is fine if you have access to the physical machine in a shared VM scenario (which is the most likely use case for this type of exploit). Doing this within a browser is a completely different matter.

Correcting the misinformation that you keep re-posting in a public forum is not a personal attack.
 
Man of Honour
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Yet their exploit doesn't work in any current browser as is and I've explained with technical details which are possible to verify and all are in accordance with the white paper why even if they managed to work around the obstacles at browser level why this avenue isn't particularly useful as an attack (particularly against the average consumer environment) unless you've already penetrated the security of a system to a degree which means it is kind of moot. I won't rule out developments of these kind of attacks that are more useful in the future but that is incredibly open ended and many of the same limitations would still apply.

Just repeatedly quoting blocks from the white paper and supporting information without understanding what they are actually saying isn't actually helpful and definitely isn't refuting the points people are raising.
 
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Associate
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1,284
You have re-posted the same excerpt where they clearly state they used the SpiderMonkey JavaScript engine (which is a standalone engine) and could not make it work inside the Chrome browser. Their own video examples clearly demonstrate that the code is being run outside the browser. Yet you still keep posting that they ran the code inside the browser.

The requirement to run the processes on the same core requires the use of system tools to identify and set affinity. This is fine if you have access to the physical machine in a shared VM scenario (which is the most likely use case for this type of exploit). Doing this within a browser is a completely different matter.

Correcting the misinformation that you keep re-posting in a public forum is not a personal attack.

I already posted that there are no mitigations to RIDL in chrome with the post to the chrome developers forum. If you continue harassing me I will look to resolve this via legal means.
 
Associate
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Yet their exploit doesn't work in any current browser as is and I've explained with technical details which are possible to verify and all are in accordance with the white paper why even if they managed to work around the obstacles at browser level why this avenue isn't particularly useful as an attack (particularly against the average consumer environment) unless you've already penetrated the security of a system to a degree which means it is kind of moot. I won't rule out developments of these kind of attacks that are more useful in the future but that is incredibly open ended and many of the same limitations would still apply.

Just repeatedly quoting blocks from the white paper and supporting information without understanding what they are actually saying isn't actually helpful and definitely isn't refuting the points people are raising.

If you continue harassing me I will look to resolve this via legal means.
 
Man of Honour
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OMG - is this bickering really still going on...? I'm beginning to wish I'd never started the thread. :rolleyes:

It's a bizzare world we live in :) literally anything on the internet can be turned into an argument that spans days or more, at this point it's a battle of attrition where only few men dared to go. It's been an epic read but I left the front lines for fear of shooting myself in the face...

Terminator / Keyboard Warrior said:
... It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.
 
Associate
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It's a bizzare world we live in :) literally anything on the internet can be turned into an argument that spans days or more, at this point it's a battle of attrition where only few men dared to go. It's been an epic read but I left the front lines for fear of shooting myself in the face...

Leave him alone, the admin will ban you if you start on him too. Don't say I did not warn you.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
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It's a bizzare world we live in :) literally anything on the internet can be turned into an argument that spans days or more, at this point it's a battle of attrition where only few men dared to go. It's been an epic read but I left the front lines for fear of shooting myself in the face...

Too late you are one of the bad boys now.
 
Associate
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OMG - is this bickering really still going on...? I'm beginning to wish I'd never started the thread. :rolleyes:

That's what trolls do, don't post or they may start on you too m8. Let them waste their time attacking me. Just stay out of it and keep yourself safe. Debate with better people than post here. The mod won't protect you from them.
 
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Man of Honour
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Leave him alone, the admin will ban you if you start on him too. Don't say I did not warn you.

:D I consider myself warned and have given myself a stern dressing down, my behaviour was uncouth and I should be punished for my transgressions towards my fellow overclockers. @Selekt0r there was no offence intended in that post in any way my friend.

@zx128k Have I escaped the class action?
 
Associate
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:D I consider myself warned and have given myself a stern dressing down, my behaviour was uncouth and I should be punished for my transgressions towards my fellow overclockers. @Selekt0r there was no offence intended in that post in any way my friend.

@zx128k Have I escaped the class action?

You know fine rightly what you have all been doing. Leave him alone and grow up. Any other forum and you would all be banned.
 
Man of Honour
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You know fine rightly what you have all been doing. Leave him alone and grow up. Any other forum and you would all be banned.

Wow - aside from the last post which was amusingly flippant Vince's contributions to this thread have been nothing but mature, informed and largely non-partisan.
 
Man of Honour
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I thought it might raise a little smile, lets be honest there isn't any intel security discussions putting a smile on anybody's face around here, laughs have been few and far between. What we need is to relax, take a few breaths and ask a very important question... how much money does one need to take everybody in the overclockers CPU section to court? :D
 
Man of Honour
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and ask a very important question... how much money does one need to take everybody in the overclockers CPU section to court?

The only winners are the lawyers - and if you think I can drag things on you haven't met my lawyer...
 
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