Your websites width? (what do you prefer, and use?)
- Thread starter stevemclintock
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Longbow said:
Kind of. IE6 users should upgrade. IE7 is a better browser, but it's not their responsibility to ensure the websites they visit look ok, it's down the developer of the site. It's part of their job. Period.
You wouldn't like it if a garage refused to fix your car because it was made in 1995 and their mechanics only bother fixing cars designed in 2000 and beyond.
Didn't mean to presume you were talking about me - must be my time of the month 
</manblob>
But these are computers not cars
End-user software developers don't often care if their programs don't work on Windows 98 anymore, and that's in the name of progress - so maybe websites should do something similar soon - also in the name of progress? Because if people use IE6 for long, it is effectively going to "hinder the internet" if anything unsupported by IE6 comes out, but there's still 50% of 'net browsers using IE6. There's no example, just hypothetically speaking.
</manblob>But these are computers not cars
End-user software developers don't often care if their programs don't work on Windows 98 anymore, and that's in the name of progress - so maybe websites should do something similar soon - also in the name of progress? Because if people use IE6 for long, it is effectively going to "hinder the internet" if anything unsupported by IE6 comes out, but there's still 50% of 'net browsers using IE6. There's no example, just hypothetically speaking.
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Software developers choose not to bother with Windows 98 support because they don't need to, not because they don't want to. Windows 98 is so old now that virtually no one uses it any more, and so there's no need to support it.
IE6 is another matter entirely; it's been less than a year since IE7 was introduced, and there's still a significant portion of internet users still using it, hence the necessity of supporting it. It's not a web developer's responsibility to 'force' users to upgrade to IE7; that's up to the users themselves. A web developer's job is to cater for the end users.
IE6 certainly can be a royal pain in the arse when it comes to developing websites, but you've just got to put up with it unless you want to alienate a large portion of your potential end users.
IE6 is another matter entirely; it's been less than a year since IE7 was introduced, and there's still a significant portion of internet users still using it, hence the necessity of supporting it. It's not a web developer's responsibility to 'force' users to upgrade to IE7; that's up to the users themselves. A web developer's job is to cater for the end users.
IE6 certainly can be a royal pain in the arse when it comes to developing websites, but you've just got to put up with it unless you want to alienate a large portion of your potential end users.
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The upgrade to IE7 from IE6 is free - its more like if MS made Vista free for everyone with an XP lisence, then hell yeah I'd upgrade to Vista 
IE6 isn't very good at rendering a lot of things, that's my gripe with it - and really it's not a lot of effort for someone to upgrade their browser to IE7... It's not that old (year 2000ish isn't it?) but it's quality is pretty damn poor, and there's a free upgrade available which will be better for the end user and the web developers. Win-win, surely!
If YouTube had a notice when IE6 users visited explaining simply and quickly to the user that they're using an old browser, and explained simply how to upgrade to a new one, then that'd only be a good thing.
I honestly do think that IE6 users should upgrade - they'll loose nothing but gain a lot.
I know exactly what you mean though, iCraig, you shouldn't have a site decide who it displays its content to, and a site should work with all the popular browsers... but it seems too many people just aren't aware of how much of a pain IE6 can be to web developers - and the only reason they're unaware is because web developers still cater for them. It would make things so much easier if nobody used it, and nobody would loose out on anything - they'd only gain a better browser. I bet that if IE6 users were actually aware their browser is outdated, less secure, poorer at rendering, and making developers lifes difficult, they'd upgrade it... it's the unawareness (word?) thats the problem, I guess.
I'm sure you see from my point of view, and I do see from yours
But you must agree it'd be for "the greater good" if everyone was on IE7. I just think that maybe something needs to be done to make people aware of it, if IE6 doesn't become a dying breed within the next 18 months or so?
sorry for the read, didnt realise how much i typed!
IE6 isn't very good at rendering a lot of things, that's my gripe with it - and really it's not a lot of effort for someone to upgrade their browser to IE7... It's not that old (year 2000ish isn't it?) but it's quality is pretty damn poor, and there's a free upgrade available which will be better for the end user and the web developers. Win-win, surely!
If YouTube had a notice when IE6 users visited explaining simply and quickly to the user that they're using an old browser, and explained simply how to upgrade to a new one, then that'd only be a good thing.
I honestly do think that IE6 users should upgrade - they'll loose nothing but gain a lot.
I know exactly what you mean though, iCraig, you shouldn't have a site decide who it displays its content to, and a site should work with all the popular browsers... but it seems too many people just aren't aware of how much of a pain IE6 can be to web developers - and the only reason they're unaware is because web developers still cater for them. It would make things so much easier if nobody used it, and nobody would loose out on anything - they'd only gain a better browser. I bet that if IE6 users were actually aware their browser is outdated, less secure, poorer at rendering, and making developers lifes difficult, they'd upgrade it... it's the unawareness (word?) thats the problem, I guess.
I'm sure you see from my point of view, and I do see from yours
But you must agree it'd be for "the greater good" if everyone was on IE7. I just think that maybe something needs to be done to make people aware of it, if IE6 doesn't become a dying breed within the next 18 months or so?sorry for the read, didnt realise how much i typed!
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iCraig said:
No, but some garages actually do (well not with those exact years, but you get my point, if you went to probably any garage with your Model T Ford I doubt they'd want to work on it.) The fact that I don't like their policy is in the end, my problem, not theirs.
Anyway, more to the point, Microsoft does this with their own software.
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Two blue chip software solutions companies we did sites for recently both ran IE6 browsers while some were on IE7. Made for a difficult time when trying to sort out css dropdown menus, but had to be done. One of these places, some of the machines were still on Win 2000... Yeah let that thought send a shiver down your spine for a second...
anyone who says that IE6 is reduntant and anyone using it 'should just upgrade' is quite frankly are rather narrow-minded fool and certainly not any form of respectable web developer.
Unbeknown to you, the internet is not full of 'pc savvy' techy users who upgrade their version of IE the moment it comes out. In reality its full of people with old operating systems, no windows updates, no idea what IE7 is. THOSE people are what the majority of the net is.
Oh and by the way, do you have ANY idea how long it takes a large company (ie. NHS) to roll out an IE7 update across 4500 pcs? is it compatible with all their clinical systems? what about the police? do they have web apps that are business critical?
I think a few of the people need to think twice before ranting about how people should already have upgraded when in reality, my bet is that a whole chunk of Internet users are using IE6 and below
Unbeknown to you, the internet is not full of 'pc savvy' techy users who upgrade their version of IE the moment it comes out. In reality its full of people with old operating systems, no windows updates, no idea what IE7 is. THOSE people are what the majority of the net is.
Oh and by the way, do you have ANY idea how long it takes a large company (ie. NHS) to roll out an IE7 update across 4500 pcs? is it compatible with all their clinical systems? what about the police? do they have web apps that are business critical?
I think a few of the people need to think twice before ranting about how people should already have upgraded when in reality, my bet is that a whole chunk of Internet users are using IE6 and below
Spammeh said:
Correct, in fact according to W3C the MAJORITY of people are still using IE6.
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
Only an utter moron would alienate a third of their possible traffic.
edit: already posted by JamesU2005 but needed reiterating.