z170 vs x99 CPU's - gaming performance.

[Perfect_Chaos]

Had a bit of a chat with one of the guys over at Digital Foundry through E-mail, because i was considering putting together a separate 6700k system.

This is a response when i asked about the RAM they used in the z97 setup vs the 6700k because it was never mentioned, and overall performance of the z170 setup in their 6700k review, mainly asking about the minimum frame rates.

We used 1866MHz RAM in the 4790K system at the time if I recall and back then, we weren't aware of how crucial RAM was. Based on the subsequent tests we've done with Skylake (eg Core i5 6500 review) I think the faster results from 6700K are a combination of higher memory bandwidth and IPC.

It is highly unlikely that you will have memory bandwidth constriction issues with the 5820K assuming you are using four sticks of RAM and I'd stick with that. Virtually all modern games are now aware of at least eight threads. The Division works with 12!

I tested my 5960X with six cores active at 4.4GHz and results were in line with 6700K suggesting a multi GPU setup is required to differentiate them.

For now I'd stick with 5820K!

And when asked about the x99 system he had run tests with..

I can't recall what the 5960X results were, only that they were so similar that I quickly realised I'd need a multi-GPU set-up to spot any kind of tangible difference. I'd *love* to test a 5820K - I don't have one. I'm actually going to do a series of builds that we'll regularly update and multi-GPU is one of them - for this I've pencilled in 5820K which I guess I'll end up buying.

But the way things are going by the time I get around to it, the 6800K will be out. That may actually be a better upgrade for you as I'm pretty sure Broadwell-E will slot into an X99 board.

My gut feeling is an overclocked 5820K will best the 6700K. My thinking is this:

* Overclocked i5 can match i7 performance as an average, but lowest frame-rates never match (ie stutter)
* Six cores offers more threads and more power
* Virtually every game these days uses eight threads minimum

I did notice an outlier though. Weirdly, Assassin's Creed Unity runs slower on 5960X than it does on 4790K (with 1600MHz RAM!). I noticed this during the Titan X review and never quite got my head around it: http://postimg.org/image/usom8329z/

So the 4790k cannot really be used as a substitute to compare a 5820k (or any x99 chip) vs the 6700k in their review, the higher performance is due to DDR4 as well as the extra IPC. So moving from z97 to x99 has the memory advantage in its favor.

Thought some may find it interesting anyway. And i already know some say the difference is small - but with the DDR4 and higher clocked memory on x99 the difference between it and Skylake is even smaller it seems, for the most part.

Also as a last bit:

Got quite an interesting piece coming up - can the 2500K still hack it? Basically, 2500K at 4.6GHz with 2133MHz RAM is equivalent to stock i5 6500 3.2GHz with 2666MHz RAM. Fairly easy to hit CPU limits on the 2500K these days - even with GTX 970.

 

[OrionTC]

as someone with a [email protected] I noticed a smoother gaming experience when I jumped to a 5820k @4.2ghz(for now) with a 970gtx.

I know not everyone will agree but it seems like I have far fewer "hangs" with the 5820k

 

[Cooper]

Extra cores don't giver higher 'maximum' frame rates, they just ensure higher 'Minimum' frame rates, which is what many people overlook and is far more important to a smooth gaming experience IMO.

 

[Devlish]

(Noob alert!) So an x99 / 5820K is the way to go? Im currently looking at ditching my 3570K mainly because the usb ports on the motherboard are giving me no end of grief and I cant source another socket 1155 mb sensibly - so using it as an excuse to upgrade for an oculus rift and carrying over my 970. Basically looking for an excuse to pull the trigger.

 

[Cooper]

(Noob alert!) So an x99 / 5820K is the way to go?

If I were upgrading today from my 4690k, it wouldn't be to a Z170 6600K/6700K setup, it would be to the X99 and a 5820K with 16GB of DDR4.

6 cores, 12 threads at 4Ghz+ will be easily good enough for the next 3yrs at least in any gaming based scenario.

 

[~>Dg<~]

yes its a tricky one at moment. iknow im doing similar with one of my pcs.

have a i5 @4ghz.

now i just added my cart up for i7 6700k 16gb ram = £560
same with cheapest bundle for x99 i want = £618

now when i look at it. i can see pluses for both . which makes it harder.

i7 set up you know more or less you gunna get 4.4-4.5 no hassle.with less chance of mobo issues (x99 threads are on here daily with issues) for a cheaper price.also higher clock speed than the x99 for gaming.

- is editing and stuff against the x99 5820k which i do.

x99 overclocked smashes the i7 6700k by quite a bit but the cheaper bundles on ocuk just dunno what chip you gunna get. while 8pack says they arent binned or checked me has a feeling the lower chips probably go in the bundles.

gaming wise mostly slower than the 6700k not by much but there.

 

[dakaiez]

yes its a tricky one at moment. iknow im doing similar with one of my pcs.

have a i5 @4ghz.

now i just added my cart up for i7 6700k 16gb ram = £560
same with cheapest bundle for x99 i want = £618

now when i look at it. i can see pluses for both . which makes it harder.

i7 set up you know more or less you gunna get 4.4-4.5 no hassle.with less chance of mobo issues (x99 threads are on here daily with issues) for a cheaper price.also higher clock speed than the x99 for gaming.

- is editing and stuff against the x99 5820k which i do.

x99 overclocked smashes the i7 6700k by quite a bit but the cheaper bundles on ocuk just dunno what chip you gunna get. while 8pack says they arent binned or checked me has a feeling the lower chips probably go in the bundles.

gaming wise mostly slower than the 6700k not by much but there.

Been doing the same, still adding up a 5820k but just about holding myself back for Broadwell-E.

My [email protected] is starting to show it's age when streaming, especially with some of the CPU intensive games nowadays. Want an upgrade now but I keep reminding myself to wait as it could be better.

 

[Minstadave]

Does skylake really have a 50% IPC benefit over Sandy? Not sure I buy that.

 

[Cern]

Been doing the same, still adding up a 5820k but just about holding myself back for Broadwell-E.

My [email protected] is starting to show it's age when streaming, especially with some of the CPU intensive games nowadays. Want an upgrade now but I keep reminding myself to wait as it could be better.

Same here. I've set my mind on x99 but want to try and hold out for Broadwell-E. But my Q6600 is really showing its age now, although it still amazes me what it can cope with. I'm beyond ready to upgrade but I know it pays to be patient. Any new build needs to last me at least the next 5 years so what's a few more months. But I keep loading stuff into my basket and testing my resolve

 

[setter]

Odd that they only used 1866mhz memory on the 4790k setup, especially when you consider that 2400/2600mhz were pretty much the go to ram speed with theese chips. In my own experience going from a 4790k at 4.7ghz with 8gb of c10 2400mhz ram to a 5820k at 4.5ghz with 16gb of 3000mhz c15 ram. Gaming performance is very similar with a single gtx 980ti.

 

[dakaiez]

Same here. I've set my mind on x99 but want to try and hold out for Broadwell-E. But my Q6600 is really showing its age now, although it still amazes me what it can cope with. I'm beyond ready to upgrade but I know it pays to be patient. Any new build needs to last me at least the next 5 years so what's a few more months. But I keep loading stuff into my basket and testing my resolve

Exactly what i'm doing, my system is 4 and a bit years old now so beyond ready and setting my eyes on an i7 as I want to start recording/streaming more. What's a few extra months waiting eh?

 

[bfar]

Yep, this question keeps coming up. Nobody's done a proper gaming head to head between an overclocked 5820k and an overclocked 6700k, so we don't know which is the better bet. What we do know is that they are both excellent gaming CPUs that should see us into 2019 at least. I believe that is a key point.

If you do any heavy productivity at all, its probably worth throwing the extra few quid at a 5820k.

If you don't, then you can save a few quid by going for a 6700k build, and putting that spare cash into a GPU or other components. That price gap can be wide enough depending on how you choose your components.

And despite what's been said about games now being multithreaded, the 6600k is still the real hero of the hour from a gaming perspective. Yes games are using more than 4 threads, but we don't know much about how they're being employed, because those extra threads still seem to be having a pretty minor impact on gaming frametimes. Whether that changes in the next couple of years is a complete guess.

Finally, if your still rocking an overclocked 2500k, and if it really does perform in ballpark 3.2 GHz skylake territory, then I say that's great news, because it confirms there's another couple of years gaming in it yet Best gaming CPU ever made.

 

[~>Dg<~]

yes a gaming system makes more sense using a i5 money wise. in many benchmarks i seen i5s were actually beating 5820s.

theres about £50-60 difference if you do editing id get the 5820k . if you just mainly game and have a i5 even on sandybridge just wait.

few months time we will have broadwell e so you wont struggle for 2 months and only prices will go down on 5820k,6700k or you get faster gear on newer cpus for same price as now.

basically you cant lose by waiting two months. (looked up when and june is apparently the release date )

 

[Quartz]

Doesn't it depend upon the games you'll be playing? If you're playing games that make use of a dozen or more cores then you're better off going X99; if the games only use a few cores then Z170?

 

[Ayahuasca]

DX12 could change things a lot if 6 or more cores start providing a good boost.

I'd regret going 6700k and saving a few quid if a 5820k starts pulling ahead in any DX12 titles.

Early benchmarks show this will be the case but we'll not see the bigger picture till there's a host of DX12 titles to test.

I'm still on a [email protected] atm.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

There are a lot of people with cash to invest, and no idea of the best way to invest it right now! Personally, I'm on a 4790k - 16GB Dominator 2400 CL9 - 980Ti setup right now. My dilemma is do I go X99 or do I stick with the the 4790k and go SLI?

SLI throws its own issues into the mix with stutter, lack of support and not to mention controlling the heat.

In the short term I need to wait for Broadwell E and possibly Pascal, although I feel high end Pascal could be at least a year away yet, and I want the trigger pulled in the next month or so.

 

[dakaiez]

Yeah it's dependant on what you do, money you can spend and so on. Like I said my i5 2500k @4.4 is still going strong when just gaming. When I stream or record then it struggles, Division literally kept it at 100% usage the whole time I played so I couldn't do anything else on the side. So for me an upgrade IS needed, just waiting it out for Broadwell-E even though i'm very impatient and seeing what they bring to the table, hopefully it's better than what we currently have so it's worth the wait.

Not the only thing i'm looking at, looking at a top end graphics card to replace my ageing 680 and ready to get a 980ti but then at the same time want to wait for Pascal. Joys of upgrading eh... .

Hopefully DX12 allows games to use multiple cores even easier, then it'll be worth it in general.

 

[bfar]

I'd regret going 6700k and saving a few quid if a 5820k starts pulling ahead in any DX12 titles.

Early benchmarks show this will be the case but we'll not see the bigger picture till there's a host of DX12 titles to test.

Agreed, we won't know for a while.

I might regret not buying a 6700k if the 5820k doesn't pull ahead!

 

[~>Dg<~]

Agreed, we won't know for a while.

I might regret not buying a 6700k if the 5820k doesn't pull ahead!

realistically it wont.

what many forget is devs look at what people have majority not minority.

everyone always says multicore is coming. never really has.not gamingwise.


also the 6700k will be fine mostly quicker than 5820k in games.clocks higher and even the new broadwell e will be at best 5-10 percent better so it will probably just match what you have now.

even if multicore does start to come in wont be for 2-3 years for 6 cores as its not mainstream which is a games dev sales plot.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

When is Broadwell E due to go on sale?