z490 motherboards up at overclokers preorder?

wookiee87

wookiee87

wookiee87

Soldato
Joined
28 Aug 2017
Posts
3,215
Location
United Kingdom
look at those prices WOW

between £369 - £1199.99

asus prozart z490 £369.95
asus maximus 12 hero z490 £429.95
asus maximus 12 formula z490 £499.99
asus maximus 12 extreme z490 £849.99
gigabyte aorus extreme waterforce z490 £1199.99
gigabyte aorus master z490 £389.99

and i thought x570 was expensive, the above have pci-e gen 4 capable but the cpu's dont :(
 
ouch!
they are alittle ott for sure vs the x570

saying that the gigabyte elite, tuf-gaming and tomahawk seems around £200-220, which is about right considering the powerful vrms
 
FireTwo said:
ouch!
they are alittle ott for sure vs the x570

saying that the gigabyte elite, tuf-gaming and tomahawk seems around £200-220, which is about right considering the powerful vrms
Click to expand...


if the cpu's had pci-e gen 4 built in then maybe the prices are ok, i dunno though, x570 sure seems the smarter buy tbh :)

Asrock are the only ones to have a sub £200 on ocuk :(
 
wookiee87 said:
Asrock are the only ones to have a sub £200 on ocuk :(
Click to expand...
This is just a taster. we'll have over 50 boards to choose from just on Z490, starting around the £130 mark.

Interesting, I think, is the new ProArt board...not aimed at gamers but that much Thunderbolt support on a PC motherboard used to cost a small fortune. When our tech manager saw it he was expecting the price point to be north of £800.
 
ScottiB said:
This is just a taster. we'll have over 50 boards to choose from just on Z490, starting around the £130 mark.
Click to expand...


that'll be better for those looking to upgrade, though we still need to know the chip prices, due to covid-19 I've seen prices starting to climb on most items from all retailers. likely all the new tech coming out will carry a pretty premium :(, thanks covid
 
some of these prices are in line while others are stretching the margins.

Unless you’re going for a 10core and going to oc under a custom loop and want to hand tune your mem, anything above mid tier 250 or above is overkill.
 
It's difficult to talk about pricing because some people fixate on launch prices, often taking pre-launch USD rumours as concrete pricing. Some people keep up to date and moan when prices go up and some people just don't pay attention to them at all.

Since X570 launched there has been an increase in component pricing (capacitors, resistors etc) which is why, along with the weakening pound, we've seen price increases almost across the board.

Parts which use these components heavily such as VGA, boards, PSU have been affected more so than silicon based tech. Pretty much every motherboard has gone up in price since the start of the year. There's also the increase in spec with this launch...beefier VRM, more M.2, increased use of WIFI and 2.5 - 10Gb LAN for example...more controllers always equals more cost. This is why I expect the price jump on boards (launch to launch) to be more than on CPUs this time around (that said we don't have confirmed CPU pricing yet).
 
FireTwo said:
https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i9-10900k-10-core-cpu-5-4-ghz-overclock-benchmarks/

looks pretty powerful!
Click to expand...


indeed a all core 5.4ghz oc is bloody quick, and is almost on par with a 3900x, would be interesting to know at what power cost the new 10900k hit at 5.4ghz, given the choice would you take Intel over AMD with the increase power draw?

to note that chip is a ES which means its probably one Intel pre binned, reviews always seem to get the best chips for review, and the consumer is left with what's left, be interesting to see if retail chips could hit that
 
wookiee87 said:
and is almost on par with a 3900x
Click to expand...
That's at stock.

All cores @5.4GHz is going to skin the AMD but that's nothing new. We also don't know how high up on the scale that particular CPU lies. Intel are still going to be the ultimate performance leaders when overclocks are applied but, again, it comes down to pricing.
 
ScottiB said:
That's at stock.

All cores @5.4GHz is going to skin the AMD but that's nothing new. We also don't know how high up on the scale that particular CPU lies. Intel are still going to be the ultimate performance leaders when overclocks are applied but, again, it comes down to pricing.
Click to expand...


checkout this

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-c...-to-5-4-ghz-scores-3k-points-in-cinebench-r15

notice in the screen shot the temp min/max 0/62? and its using 2 8gb sticks of ddr4 at cl14 which no doubt will help the score, the temp readout is interesting though, why is it 0 at min and 62 max? water chiller maybe?
 
Possible but it's hard to trust pre-launch temp readings. We've seen many BS readings from software until it's updated to support new platforms. I'll be genuinely surprised if 5.4GHz all cores is the norm on a ten core.
 
ScottiB said:
Possible but it's hard to trust pre-launch temp readings. We've seen many BS readings from software until it's updated to support new platforms. I'll be genuinely surprised if 5.4GHz all cores is the norm on a ten core.
Click to expand...

I'm going to run r15 on my 3900x and see what it scores with a all core 4.4ghz and cl17 ram, see if I'm screwed or not :)
 
Last edited:
ScottiB said:
It's difficult to talk about pricing because some people fixate on launch prices, often taking pre-launch USD rumours as concrete pricing. Some people keep up to date and moan when prices go up and some people just don't pay attention to them at all.

Since X570 launched there has been an increase in component pricing (capacitors, resistors etc) which is why, along with the weakening pound, we've seen price increases almost across the board.

Parts which use these components heavily such as VGA, boards, PSU have been affected more so than silicon based tech. Pretty much every motherboard has gone up in price since the start of the year. There's also the increase in spec with this launch...beefier VRM, more M.2, increased use of WIFI and 2.5 - 10Gb LAN for example...more controllers always equals more cost. This is why I expect the price jump on boards (launch to launch) to be more than on CPUs this time around (that said we don't have confirmed CPU pricing yet).
Click to expand...

The pound weakening doesn't hold up though as the MSRP in USD has also been heavily increased. More like X570 taught the motherboard manufacturers the market will accept a higher price of entry so why not keep the trend going with Z490. The additions you listed are nowhere near the price hike justification. They're really just moving the stack up until people push back.


Hopefully we don't end up in another DDR4 pricing scandal down the road :)
 
right that didn't take too long.

The leaked 10900k score with a possible 5.4ghz all core overclock in r15 was 3002 points with cl14 ram.

my 4.4ghz all core clock on a 3900x with cl17 ram in r15 was 3426 points,
temps hit high 70's and maxed out at 81 degrees, but rad fans wernt spinning very quick, also vcore is 1.335v

nlXIlBn.png
 
Robert896r1 said:
The pound weakening doesn't hold up though as the MSRP in USD has also been heavily increased. More like X570 taught the motherboard manufacturers the market will accept a higher price of entry so why not keep the trend going with Z490. The additions you listed are nowhere near the price hike justification. They're really just moving the stack up until people push back
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I said that it's difficult to have an open discussion on pricing. Your comment is pretty much what I meant by "fixating on launch prices". Not everybody has full appreciation of the hidden cost changes involved.

Let me attempt to break down what I see for a moment (hypothetically because I don't have actual pricing details but I have 15 years experience including three years working for MSI).

- The new chipset is more complex than the last so it costs the manufacturer $10 more
- more/beefier VRM's to support two more cores = $10 more
- the higher spec LAN controller = $10 more
- WIFI controller = $10 more
- pretty much every board now has digital RGB controller = $10 more
- all on a more complex PCB with more layers/traces = $5 more.

That's a $55 increase to the bill of materials. Add the manufacturer margin and that's $65 more, once you've added distribution margin and reseller margin, $75...then there's a hefty global increase to courier costs...all launch stock is flown over vs sea shipments for anything over 2 months old, so that's about $5 more per board...

I really hope you start to see where I'm coming from cuz I'm really trying not to appear argumentative.

As the new controllers/components become more mature, can be produced and purchased in higher volume and as goods can be shipped by sea, then you start to see pricing slide downwards, more deals be done etc but "launch premium" isn't all about people being greedy. I'm certain that I'll make less margin at launch than I will in a few months time.
 
Last edited:
ScottiB said:
This is exactly why I said that it's difficult to have an open discussion on pricing. Your comment is exactly what I meant by fixating on launch prices. Not everybody has full appreciation of the hidden cost changes involved.

Let me attempt to break it down for a moment (hypothetically because I don't have actual pricing details but I have 15 years experience including three years working for MSI).

The new chipset is more complex than the last so it costs the manufacturer $10 more, more/beefier VRM's to support two more cores $10 more, the higher spec LAN controller $10 more, WIFI controller $10 more, pretty much every board now has digital RGB controller $10 more, all on a more complex PCB with more layers/traces $5 more. That's a $55 increase to the bill of materials. Add their margin and that's $65 more, once you've added distribution margin and reseller margin, $75...then there's a hefty global increase to courier costs...all launch stock is flown over vs sea shipments for anything over 2 months old, so that's about $5 more per board...I really hope you start to see where I'm coming from.

As the new controllers/components become more mature, can be produced and purchased in higher volume and as goods can be shipped by sea, then you start to see pricing slide downwards, more deals be done etc but "launch premium" isn't all about people being greedy. I'm certain that I'll make less margin at launch than I will in a few months time.
Click to expand...

Firstly, appreciate the detailed response.

The margin wasn't directed at you but the mobo manufacturers. When you look at the Z490, the general makeup isn't that different to the Z390. The chipset changes aren't significant.

To clarify a few points and sticking to the higher end boards that I track, the PCB layers on the z490 Apex are still 6 for example. They are 6 on my z390 Apex also. The PCB layer count hasn't gone up in any significant means across the range. Infact, it's always the lil iTX guys that get the most PCB layers due to their packaging. The same z490 itx will be 8+ layers as they were on z390 also. They often get the most expensive voltage regulation components also due the same factor. All these higher tier boards had RGB, wifi, etc so these aren't net new costs that materially shift to the production cost to the degree you're stating.

For VRM: A lot of the components being used on the VRM sides are continuation of Z390, X570 or a hybrid of both. The economies of scale are mature here. There are changes for sure, but nothing that is beyond the scope of what was there already. The Godlike, for example, was using SMD's the previous gen also so it's not like they went from through holes to SMD. Most of the other boards stuck to their z390 fundamentals and added incremental changes to improving transients (hopefully).

I don't disagree that pricing can move up but the Apex going up by 100+ more list isn't the hill to fight on.
 
Last edited:
Apex!..why did you have to look at Apex?

The one board in every range which is definitely not aimed at people who want value for money.

Apex is the motherboard equivalent of those cars which manufacturers charge more for after they've removed the radio and carpets
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom