Doom Vulkan with different CPUs

[ltron]

I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. Exactly how many game engines have you worked on or developed?

Have a look at the unreal engine, all the graphics APIs are abstracted away in wrappers. No sane programmer on the planet wants to constantly access low level API commands, this is even more the case with DX12 and Vulkan. This is the entire purpose of these new APIS, the developer has to create a more encompassing wrapper that takes more control over the command queue and state

Even if this is true, the developer of Talos Principle stated that basics like multi-threading are not implemented in Vulkan according to the quoted source, http://steamcommunity.com/app/257510/discussions/0/412447331651559970/?ctp=2#c412447331651997070, whether it has been implemented in subsequent patches I don't know.

Obviously multi-threading has been implemented in Doom Vulkan and implemented well, as well as advanced features such as Async compute and Shader Intrinsic Functions. You have to bear in mind the vast technical experience and resources that Id have in getting the most from the API.

By contrast, there is only one person working on the implementation for the Talos Principle and they have admitted it is far from optimised and at the same point in the process for DX11 optimisation it was as fast as DX9, whereas now it's significantly faster.

 

[ltron]

You do make me chuckle how Doom is the one to use but The Talos Principle isn't, even though they both have Vulkan as a wrapper and neither are native Vulkan. I guess it is only fair use when a certain brand is winning but all good fun

Doom is a native implementation of Vulkan, as much as is possible for the developer's sanity anyway, according to this article:http://www.gamersnexus.net/news/2426-doom-native-support-for-vulkan-and-gtx-1080-fps. Just because it also implements OpenGL natively doesn't mean they can't implement Vulkan natively as well, as a separate entity.

Talos Principle is a much more basic implementation according to the sole developer working on it and lacks such basics as CPU multi-threading support which is why people aren't paying it much attention yet.

 

[ltron]

You make an interesting point here and the results are very much contrary to what I expected to see.

One of the key advantages of lower-level APIs is to get more out of less capable CPUs and it seems some problem is preventing AMD from doing this which is a big disadvantage for potential RX480 owners as I would expect most to have a mid-range or lower CPU.

 

[bru]

Doom using Vulcan to it's fullest potential, lol, so what will it be doing when a future patch comes out giving AMD another 5% performance improvement, ooohhh fullest potential plus a bit more.

I seriously doubt that any game out at the moment is using anything like the fullest potential of DX12, Vulcan, or even DX11 for that matter.

Look how much console games improve from the consoles release to the end of their cycle, it can take many years to get the best out of a set of hardware and software, let alone the PC when the hardware changes so often as well.

 

[shankly1985]

Doom using Vulcan to it's fullest potential, lol, so what will it be doing when a future patch comes out giving AMD another 5% performance improvement, ooohhh fullest potential plus a bit more.

I seriously doubt that any game out at the moment is using anything like the fullest potential of DX12, Vulcan, or even DX11 for that matter.

Look how much console games improve from the consoles release to the end of their cycle, it can take many years to get the best out of a set of hardware and software, let alone the PC when the hardware changes so often as well.

Chill I just word it wrong.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

so this means anyone with an older cpu platform should upgrade to an NVidia card due to its more efficient use of cpu power to get a better overall experience.?
I knew NVidia were better with weaker cpus but didn't expect the difference to be so huge.
more reason for me to go NVidia for my next gpu since im sticking with the same old cpu.

 

[ltron]

Doom using Vulcan to it's fullest potential, lol, so what will it be doing when a future patch comes out giving AMD another 5% performance improvement, ooohhh fullest potential plus a bit more.

I seriously doubt that any game out at the moment is using anything like the fullest potential of DX12, Vulcan, or even DX11 for that matter.

Look how much console games improve from the consoles release to the end of their cycle, it can take many years to get the best out of a set of hardware and software, let alone the PC when the hardware changes so often as well.

No game developer is using these new APIs to make games that are not possible with the old ones, they have just been used to get better performance in current titles. However, Doom goes much further in this regard compared to most other games. The results speak for themselves.

Also, the game has only required 2 patches since launch, one of which was the Vulkan patch and this shows the sterling work done by the developers. It's probably one of the least buggy and most performant games I've ever played and it's refreshing not to have to wait for many patches to transform this game into a good experience.

 

[shankly1985]

so this means anyone with an older cpu platform should upgrade to an NVidia card due to its more efficient use of cpu power to get a better overall experience.?
I knew NVidia were better with weaker cpus but didn't expect the difference to be so huge.
more reason for me to go NVidia for my next gpu since im sticking with the same old cpu.

Don't be so fast and base just on a chart lol, they is user feedback on here and other forms running Vulkan with old CPU's with Doom and getting choppy gameplay..

This needs to be tested with video footage and capture hardware to fully see the bigger picture of what is happening.

 

[ltron]

so this means anyone with an older cpu platform should upgrade to an NVidia card due to its more efficient use of cpu power to get a better overall experience.?
I knew NVidia were better with weaker cpus but didn't expect the difference to be so huge.
more reason for me to go NVidia for my next gpu since im sticking with the same old cpu.

I think Doom is an exception here and I don't remember AMD displaying this phenomenon in other games that use lower-level APIs. We're all just wondering what the problem is in this specific case.

 

[Lokken86]

so this means anyone with an older cpu platform should upgrade to an NVidia card due to its more efficient use of cpu power to get a better overall experience.?
I knew NVidia were better with weaker cpus but didn't expect the difference to be so huge.
more reason for me to go NVidia for my next gpu since im sticking with the same old cpu.

Yea it is huge sometimes. Even a 280x got beaten by a gtx750 with an i3 cpu.

 

[shankly1985]

I think Doom is an exception here and I don't remember AMD displaying this phenomenon in other games that use lower-level APIs. We're all just wondering what the problem is in this specific case.

Correct even all the other games tested from OP site don't show this kinder gain for nvidia.
.

 

[Seanspeed]

Read the Q&A above even the developer say they need to code more to get more out the API and gain performance. It's not using Vulkan the same way ID is on DOOM.

And?

Low level API's offer such a wide range of optimization and coding possibilities that many titles will use them to different degrees.

I get what you're saying, but it's simply inaccurate to say it's not a 'true' Vulkan game. It's using Vulkan, plain and simple. It just goes to show that with low level API's, what you get often comes down to what you put into it. And what developers will put into it is not going to be a constant. Same with DX12.

It's going to take game/graphics engines that are purpose built for these API's for there to be any established baseline for low level implementation. Even then, there is going to be a good degree of variability and like I said, instead of just performance improvements, those extra capabilities will likely be used for pushing game design further. That is the way of things when developers have access to more power and possibilities. It's not always about increasing framerate, but about tapping into new ideas that were not possible before and pushing what games are all about.

 

[shankly1985]

And?

Low level API's offer such a wide range of optimization and coding possibilities that many titles will use them to different degrees.

I get what you're saying, but it's simply inaccurate to say it's not a 'true' Vulkan game. It's using Vulkan, plain and simple. It just goes to show that with low level API's, what you get often comes down to what you put into it. And what developers will put into it is not going to be a constant. Same with DX12.

It's going to take game/graphics engines that are purpose built for these API's for there to be any established baseline for low level implementation. Even then, there is going to be a good degree of variability and like I said, instead of just performance improvements, those extra capabilities will likely be used for pushing game design further. That is the way of things when developers have access to more power and possibilities. It's not always about increasing framerate, but about tapping into new ideas that were not possible before and pushing what games are all about.

Well said, I do agree with you. I just worded what I was trying to get across wrong.

 

[Doom112]

Double standards is very strong here.

Some users do not like to include The Talos Principle Vulkan results because it does not favor their agenda. Same as for Rise of the Tomb Raider because it does not favor their view. However, Rise of the Tomb Raider is best tech DX12 game available right now.

 

[Scougar]

Double standards is very strong here.

Some users do not like to include The Talos Principle Vulkan results because it does not favor their agenda. Same as for Rise of the Tomb Raider because it does not favor their view. However, Rise of the Tomb Raider is best tech DX12 game available right now.

Favour their agenda? The game is a total mess with Vulkan. It isn't a proper implementation of it. For goodness sake, it is SLOWER than DX11, if that doesn't give away that there is a serious issue with it, what will?

Both companies cards perform better with DX11, so that's what users will run in, so that's what should be benched unless that stuff gets fixed.

People need to stop making an issue out of something like this.

 

[shankly1985]

Double standards is very strong here.

Some users do not like to include The Talos Principle Vulkan results because it does not favor their agenda. Same as for Rise of the Tomb Raider because it does not favor their view. However, Forza 6 Apex is best tech DX12 game available right now.

Fixed that for you.

May I ask why you think Tomb Rider is the best showcase for DX12? What does ROTTR do better than say Forza or Hitman or Even Quantum Break?
Keeping in mind two out of the three I said are DX12 ONLY!!

 

[shankly1985]

Favour their agenda? The game is a total mess with Vulkan. It isn't a proper implementation of it. For goodness sake, it is SLOWER than DX11, if that doesn't give away that there is a serious issue with it, what will?

Both companies cards perform better with DX11, so that's what users will run in, so that's what should be benched unless that stuff gets fixed.

People need to stop making an issue out of something like this.

Agreed!
Why would we talk about Vulkan on a game that performs very badly lol It has to do better to bring attention just like what Doom did.

 

[Doom112]

Fixed that for you.

May I ask why you think Tomb Rider is the best showcase for DX12? What does ROTTR do better than say Forza or Hitman or Even Quantum Break?
Keeping in mind two out of the three I said are DX12 ONLY!!

graphic wise it is much better.

 

[shankly1985]

graphic wise it is much better.

Lol! What Graphics does DX12 add over DX11 in ROTTR ???

Give you a tip __________

 

[Doom112]

Lol! What Graphics does DX12 add over DX11 in ROTTR ???

Give you a tip __________

Same with Total Warhammer (DX11 into DX12) and Doom (Open GL to Vulkan) all are patched.
You can use google before you give tips to other.