Is the EU migrant quota system about to fall apart?

[Chris Wilson]

I'd rather not, housing migrants indefinitely in off-shore 'detention centres' (basically prisons) isn't my idea of a good system

Apparently Teresa May doesn't approve either

May questioned whether the type of system that admits migrants based on their skills was effective, and did not rule out retaining preferential access arrangements for EU citizens. “One of the issues is whether or not points-based systems do work,” she said, stressing that there was “no single silver bullet” on reducing immigration.

You asked me for my answer to handling the UK immigration problem many see, not for an answer you, or Teresa May would approve of I guess you don't see there even being a migration problem, so any answer will be easy for you to criticise.

 

[Sankari]

Australia has always been a racist country. I don't know why anyone would want to go there unless they were racist.

...said scorza, wistfully.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

But there's not a single one in the figures, not one! And I would hazard a guess Asians make up the largest percentage. I call it a fix, a blatant misrepresentation. Why would someone do that? I would hazard a guess because they are frightened of posting a realistic appraisal, as it doesn't suit their agenda as a blinkered supporter of uncontrolled immigration perhaps?

Have you got a better more accurate list?

From census data:

Now that is ethnicity, which you seem to be obsessed about. Because a large proportion of those not racially British are British born, that leaves a very low amount of migrant Asians by comparison to the rest.

2.6% as Asian British Pakistani

0.5% Asian British Indian

So from you are looking at 0.4% Indian not born here and 1.6% Pakistani not born here.

If you want roe info, download the census data. The figures quoted earlier accompany this statement in the data and given the population is just under 250000, it is obvious that there are missing nationalities and they are mentioned in the text.

There is no conspiracy, there is no mobs of angry brown people getting ready to strike.

 

[scorza]

There will be more pressure if there were less migrants to pay tax. You dont pay their education nor pay for them when they are at their most expensive (after retirement), they also use health service less than the locals.

We pay for the education of their kids, and unless migrants aren't affected by the ageing process they will get old and retire and be entitled to the same benefits (including healthcare) as British born pensioners. I don't have a problem with this, I just have a problem that increasing the population at the rate we're doing so is unsustainable.

You should be looking to put pressure on the government to better fund these institutes to accommodate for more pressure, rather than remove those who help fund them.

The cost of living will always be tuned to the wage people receive. If you want more spending money, upping the wage does not help, lowering the cost of living does. Target things that make the cost of living high rather than the wages themselves. Despite what the DM says about migrants, the housing and rent market is costly due to competition created by the buy to let housing culture. More limitations should be put on buy to let mortgages and the rent sector. Reasonable rent and mortgage prices would make a far bigger difference to each persons personal wealth than shuffling around migrant jobs.

Remember when being left-wing meant trying to reduce the income inequality gap? All uncontrolled immigration does is transfer wealth from people on low incomes to people on high incomes - the reverse of what being left-wing is supposed to mean. E.g. large supply of labour inevitable reduces worker's pay and conditions, which increases company profits and therefore executive pay goes up. Likewise large increases in population will inevitably put pressure on housing and therefore increase rents, further lining the pockets of the already wealthy landlords. You're absolutely right to say that there should be more control of the buy-to-let sector but why exacerbate the problem by allowing the population to rise in an unsustainable manner? It's foolish to think that the high levels of net migration to the UK haven't helped fuel the growth in BTL over the years.

 

[Chris Wilson]

[*]We've resettled over 1,000 people from Syria in the UK in 2015; OMG THE SKY IS FALLING!

Make that 1000 or so less one, and the sky did fall for this poor girl and her family, as this resttled Syrian absconded back to Turkey whilst on trial, and still in possession of his passport, via the usually lax UK border control, after drugging her with methadone, and raping her in Chester. A nice thank you to to the UK for giving him refuge. The media is awash with reports of migrants committing serious crimes across Europe, let's not pretend they only commit a balanced percentage of crime.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...utes-got-taxi-flees-Turkey-halfway-trial.html

 

[VincentHanna]

Why do you assume he's making it up, he's posting his feet on the ground, actually living over there in Australia opinion. I have relatives in Oz, who have lived there for several generations, and they concur with your uncle's opinion of the aborigines in general.

You are putting words in my mouth. I didn't dispute his claim at all.

But I find it Ironic that he is a migrant to Australia and has issues with other migrants wanting to go there.

And my point about indigenous Aboriginals was (really) how badly they have been treated since our lovely old empire decided to make it a colony. Their current situation and standing in society is primarily down to century's of mistreatment.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

We pay for the education of their kids, and unless migrants aren't affected by the ageing process they will get old and retire and be entitled to the same benefits (including healthcare) as British born pensioners. I don't have a problem with this, I just have a problem that increasing the population at the rate we're doing so is unsustainable.

Most come here single and of working age and many leave before they retire, so it seems they pay their way more than the average local. It is unsustainable because we are not accommodating the increase in population.

Remember when being left-wing meant trying to reduce the income inequality gap? All uncontrolled immigration ... blah blah blah

The increase in population due to immigration is very small and the benefits from immigration are many, cutting immigration does not solve any problem.

As for being left wing... i have never been left wing. In fact, I have never even voted for labour or the actually left but small niche parties.Only because you are so right wing, do you view anyone else with a different opinion as left wing.

The increase in migrants per yer is small enough that these issue they are being blamed for, are the fault of other things, mainly poor governing. Using migrants as a scapegoat only deflects the issue and allows the problems to fester while shooting yourself in the foot by removing the benefits of migration.

 

[benneh]

 

[FishFluff]

C'mon Chris Wilson. Let's talk about Stoke some more now that some facts have been provided. Why do you think somewhere with less than 4% of the population being born outside the UK has such a 'problem'?

Best regards,
Fishfluff.

 

[VincentHanna]

Probably just reads the Daily Mail too much and double checks his wallet is in his pocket when he see's a non-white face.

 

[b0redj0rd]

Probably just reads the Daily Mail too much and double checks his wallet is in his pocket when he see's a non-white face.

You literally just told Scorza to not put 'words in your mouth' and then you say something like that.

**rolleyes**

 

[Skunkworks]

Meanwhile actually on topic:

Merkel unilaterally invited the migrants and no other country should be forced to pay for her screw up.

 

[VincentHanna]

I told Chris that he was putting words in my mouth, not Scorza.

I also said "probably"

 

[Chris Wilson]

C'mon Chris Wilson. Let's talk about Stoke some more now that some facts have been provided. Why do you think somewhere with less than 4% of the population being born outside the UK has such a 'problem'?

Best regards,
Fishfluff.

Well, I would suggest you ask the voting age residents of the town, which I am not. The TV coverage during the pre EU referendum debates showed many holding strong opinions about the levels of UK immigration and stating they would vote out as they believed it would help relieve pressure to accept more immigration. I take it this is the "problem" you placed in inverted commas?

Whilst the figures show less than 4% being born OUTSIDE the UK Stoke probably has a large number of second, third and maybe fourth generation immigrants that the figures show as British. Maybe many of the residents don't think of them as such though? As to why they might not is a totally different subject, that's probably quite contentious.

 

[VincentHanna]

Whilst the figures show less than 4% being born OUTSIDE the UK Stoke probably has a large number of second, third and maybe fourth generation immigrants that the figures show as British. Maybe many of the residents don't think of them as such though? As to why they might not is a totally different subject, that's probably quite contentious.

Because they are racist?

 

[Chris Wilson]

Because they are racist?

You mean they haven't tried too hard to become culturally British and remained more aligned with their original homeland's cultures?


Maybe....

Of course, I know what you are really asking, and the answer is almost certainly yes. Racism is the new homosexuality, in that those of that persuasion are not encouraged by political correctness or law to embrace it too publicly. Nonetheless it undoubtedly exists. I would not expect it to disappear any time soon, it's been going on since time immemorial.

 

[datalol-jack]

Make that 1000 or so less one, and the sky did fall for this poor girl and her family, as this resttled Syrian absconded back to Turkey whilst on trial, and still in possession of his passport, via the usually lax UK border control, after drugging her with methadone, and raping her in Chester. A nice thank you to to the UK for giving him refuge. The media is awash with reports of migrants committing serious crimes across Europe, let's not pretend they only commit a balanced percentage of crime.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...utes-got-taxi-flees-Turkey-halfway-trial.html

Congrats, Chris. You've found a crime report in the Daily Mail where the perpetrator happened to fit your bias. Almost like you've Googled for it to attempt to build a Trump Jr. Skittles case out of tabloid clippings! Wonderful stuff to base policy on. Tremendous!

To put it in perspective, that's:
0.0028% of all rapes.
9.4 x 10^-4 of all rapes and other sexual offences combined!

I'm rounding to make the numbers look bigger. The rate for the native born, white population is also higher, as are the absolute numbers compared to those originating in the Middle East. Digging into MOJ's data, well, what do we find for violence against the person and sexual offences, for first-time, recent offenders (though the trend holds for repeat offenders and the rest in terms of being skewed towards people born here)?

130 to 1 on the first count.
48 to 1 on the second count.

You'll have better luck convincing me that DM's readership are a bunch of violent sods. We are out-napping and out-raping them aliens, dear boy, by a long shot! Not that it's an achievement to be particularly proud of.

That's for crime categories in the thousands for a population of 65 million. Although all such crimes are deplorable, we do contribute our taxes to the police and justice system precisely because crime -- amazingly -- does occur without regard for race, culture or religion, and no system of managing human behaviour in a free country (though dictatorships don't do a better job either, considering the uprisings and internal terror they either inspire or cause, or just don't record data!) is without fault.

But given the balance of risks, the crime rate and the effects it has on society in perspective -- should we carry out our humanitarian obligations? Yes. If you're that terrified by uncertainty however, I recommend not leaving the house, avoiding surgery appointments, not working with people and staying far away from any roads.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure the sky isn't falling, Chris, and, for the time being at least, we have the European Arrest Warrant to seek out all those who break the law and abscond from trial. Extradition treaties cover the rest, including Turkey.

I'm quite happy to see more resources go into the relevant agencies (we decided, of our own sovereign will, to cut and restructure the Border Force, policing, etc, under the current PM's tenure at the HO, for one, remember?), too, and better tracking of migrant data. But something tells me you aren't at all concerned about that and, like for most things, Brexit comes first in terms of the government's priorities regardless, Calais' walls and other silly stunts notwithstanding.

Your plan, if one can be bothered weaving together your lines, dots and assorted gibberish on the topic, of eliminating foreign-born presence [or at least Muslim/Middle Eastern/Refugee] in the country to reduce crime is a stratospherically expensive way to do it; not to forget, economically, socially and politically damaging, and about as effective as a chocolate teapot in Nige's coo-coo nest of a brain at achieving its actual aim -- reducing crime and re-offending in particular categories of public concern! So, yes, it's little surprise that people quickly identify a racial line in your thought and stop taking you seriously.

But keep having fun in your own little reality, champ.

 

[FishFluff]

Racism is the new homosexuality

Errrm...what?

 

[Roar87]

Is the EU still a thing? Can they not take a hint?

 

[Sankari]

Racism is the new homosexuality