Poll: Italian Grand Prix 2022, Monza - Race 16

[Bug One]

Its still dangerous and can happen because lapped cars under sc do drive faster than the rest of the pack to catch up and all it takes Is say a break failure etc near where the tractor is at and another potential bad incident happens.

Seriously red flag it once you need a crane to pick up a car. It's not rocket science.

Why are people so against a red flag? It's better for safety and the spier sport as the race can continue as it left off.

That's like saying we should close a motorway every time a tow truck has to collect a broken down car. These are the best drivers in the world. They should be capable of driving carefully around an obstruction.

 

[bazzabear]

My thoughts on these SC questions:

Why not (if time allows) simply add extra laps to replace those spent under an SC or VSC?

EDIT: I've immediately realised why not - they won't have enough fuel. Curses!

But the big one - I do not understand at all why they let lapped cars through. What is that supposed to achieve? The lead car has the advantage of those cars between him and second because he has overtaken them and second has not. So why not leave them in place?
And there are great disadvantages to letting them unlap themselves. As mentioned above - you suddenly have a group of cars travelling under SC conditions at a much greater than SC pace. And can they restart the race until they've caught the pack again?

 

[Mr Jack]

That's like saying we should close a motorway every time a tow truck has to collect a broken down car. These are the best drivers in the world. They should be capable of driving carefully around an obstruction.

Yeah, exactly. While there might be an argument in the wet, on a dry track there's no meaningful danger to the drivers from a crane or tractor under Safety Car conditions. After Bianci's incident I think they're right to keep these off the track when only yellows are out, but it's going much too far to red flag it every time a recovery vehicle is needed.

But the big one - I do not understand at all why they let lapped cars through. What is that supposed to achieve? The lead car has the advantage of those cars between him and second because he has overtaken them and second has not. So why not leave them in place?

Because a driver one lap -1s and a driver one lap +1s behind the leader end up up a lap apart instead of 2s apart.

And there are great disadvantages to letting them unlap themselves. As mentioned above - you suddenly have a group of cars travelling under SC conditions at a much greater than SC pace. And can they restart the race until they've caught the pack again?

There isn't any risk to this because they're not released until the track is clear, but I do not understand why the clearly better alternative of having them drop to the back (or go through the pit lane) and crediting them a lap is not used.

 

[Tigget]

You might be right. I think Leclerc was starting to loose his tyres before the VSC, as Max was catching him at a rate that seemed to be increasing each lap. Ultimately, it looks like RB got the strategy right with the level of downforce, to ensure their tyres lasted long enough to do a one stop.

Gotta hand it to Hannah Schmitz. She's nailing it at the moment.

Yes Hannah has been doing a great job, nice to see her come back strong and resolute after the disgusting and unforgivable abuse she received after the previous GP.

 

[Kenai]

But the big one - I do not understand at all why they let lapped cars through. What is that supposed to achieve?

It would be utter chaos as those cars would immediately be blue flagged and you suddenly have a mix of cars trying to make competitive passes, lapping passes, unlapping passes etc. all in the same condensed section of track.

You'd be extremely lucky not to cause an incident at every restart involving lapped cars.

 

[Jono8]

It would be utter chaos as those cars would immediately be blue flagged and you suddenly have a mix of cars trying to make competitive passes, lapping passes, unlapping passes etc. all in the same condensed section of track.

You'd be extremely lucky not to cause an incident at every restart involving lapped cars.

Indeed. Can you imagine if a race director chose to throw out the rule book and all precedent and NOT to do this?

 

[Yaayuh!]

4/10 race, which is generous but gave it 5/10 because of the unhappy Italian fans

 

[Mesai]

But the big one - I do not understand at all why they let lapped cars through. What is that supposed to achieve?

It should never have happened. I'm pretty sure the tractor was still on the track when they did that - very stupid move.

Indeed. Can you imagine if a race director chose to throw out the rule book and all precedent and NOT to do this?

But at least the more talented driver still won in that scenario, so it makes sense

 

[Mr Jack]

Verstappen could have this wrapped up next race, with five races ago. Incredible domination after how close it looked after the first few races.

 

[bazzabear]

It would be utter chaos as those cars would immediately be blue flagged and you suddenly have a mix of cars trying to make competitive passes, lapping passes, unlapping passes etc. all in the same condensed section of track.

You'd be extremely lucky not to cause an incident at every restart involving lapped cars.

Interesting point. But they don't always let the lapped cars through, so I wonder.

Plus, anything that increases the pressured overtakes seems like a good thing! And these are supposed to be the worlds best drivers, so knowing the circumstances I would hope they could avoid tripping each other up.

Why would it be any worse (for example) that the start of a race when a handful of front runners have all had grid penalties and are starting from the back?

 

[Kenai]

Why would it be any worse (for example) that the start of a race when a handful of front runners have all had grid penalties and are starting from the back?

It would be worse because some cars would be obliged to slow down to let a front runner pass them within a certain time frame but those same drivers will also desperately be trying to not lose places to other drivers on the same lap as them.

It's not just having faster cars at the back, it's the expectation on cars being lapped to move out of the way of some (but not all) of the cars behind them. Having some cars trying to go slower but not too much slower isn't ideal in a bunched pack.

Sometimes this would barely be a problem if it's just a couple of cars implicated but if there were a lot of them and spread through the field, it would be chaos.

@Mr Jack also made a very pertinent point regarding fairness. Imagine you're P11, rapidly chasing down P10 for that last points position. You get lapped. Before the leader laps P10 a Safety Car is called - you're now tucked up behind the leader and P10 gets to drive all the way round to the back of the pack. If you're not allowed to unlap yourself, you now have zero chance of catching P10 and securing a valuable position/point.

 

[bayo000]

Verstappen could have this wrapped up next race, with five races ago. Incredible domination after how close it looked after the first few races.

Yup, disappointed about that after the start we had. It looked like we were going to have two teams fighting and possibility of others to close the gap. Now we're in a similar situation as we were in 2014, at least this time the Ferrari car is competitive and it was bad decisions and reliability that robbed us of closer fight. Shame Checo's not able/ allowed to compete with Max.

 

[SKILL]

They did say on Team Radio they pulled him in 6 laps early (under the VSC), hards would have definitely lost him the race as he wouldn't have kept pace with Max.
I don't see what else they could have done except leave him out, but they have been burnt so many times leaving the car out under SC/VSC they didn't want to risk it today I guess

Softs seemed to be the best tyre today, obviously the rules don't allow it but I think they could probably have run the race on 2 sets of softs today.

I guess but Mediums just seemed like the wrong choice really, highly unlikely to make it to the end without another stop and slower than the softs, so surely you'd go either softs and fix in a two stop or hards to keep the one stop? Clearly nowhere near as bad as some previous races but still a dubious choice imo.

Don't see them sacking their main sponsor's son mid-season, tbh.



I think sacking Binotto would be a mistake. He's delivered their best car for years. But they need to look at the structure of the team and what Binotto's responsibilities are.

That said. I thought a gamble on VSC was the right choice and they were a little unlucky with the timing of it ending.

True, you'd hope a billionaire would've made sure the sponsorship/direct funding comes with a guaranteed drive, shame

I kinda agree but Ferrari have a habit of laying the blame on the team principal, rightly or wrongly. Sure they've got a good car but that's seemingly irrelevant if they keep messing up so badly, they could have a car even quicker than this years and they still wouldn't win.

I'd have preferred what they did in Abu Dhabi. Get rid of the lapped cars between the lead group and restart the race as soon as it was safe to do so.

The rule clarification has made the sport more boring to watch.

Define 'lead group'... What you're advocating for is a rule in a sport that explicitly gives an advantage to 1 or more drivers whilst explicitly disadvantaging 1 or more other drivers. Is that really what a sport should be aiming for?

 

[Mr Jack]

Albon suffered complications during his surgery:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1569317961311068165

*finger crossed* he can make a full recovery before Singapore.

 

[Emlyn_Dewar]

Expecting to be discharged on Tuesday, so I guess it's all fixed now but sounds pretty grim.
No idea what the expected recovery time would be, but at least there's a bit of time before the next race. Hope there are no more complications for him!

De Vries on standby, but I feel he'd struggle to have the same good performance at a track like Singapore.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Expecting to be discharged on Tuesday, so I guess it's all fixed now but sounds pretty grim.
No idea what the expected recovery time would be, but at least there's a bit of time before the next race. Hope there are no more complications for him!

De Vries on standby, but I feel he'd struggle to have the same good performance at a track like Singapore.

Holy crap what surgery did he have?

 

[hudson86]

Holy crap what surgery did he have?

Appendix removal.

 

[englishpremier]

Doubt he'll be in Singapore. Stiches will be in for a week to 10 days, How is that area going to cope with 5g braking forces? Or 20g in a crash. His insides will be looking for a way out of his body at the weakest point.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Appendix removal.

Wtf that's a bog standard surgery?

 

[jonneymendoza]

Doubt he'll be in Singapore. Stiches will be in for a week to 10 days, How is that area going to cope with 5g braking forces? Or 20g in a crash. His insides will be looking for a way out of his body at the weakest point.

I think his done for the season tbh