Poll: Singapore Grand Prix 2022, Marina Bay Street Circuit - Race 17

[Bug One]

F1 has become broken yet the pundits like to keep going on about how F1 is in such a good place right now. That race was just another lottery whilst we keep allowing pit stops under VSC and Full SC. Nothing will come of the budget gate saga with Redbull and as Martin said, it will just fade away eventually and/or have no impact on anything. Redbull will continue to be toxic and leverage their power over everyone/thing.

The only way things get good again is if we start pushing to race at tracks where overtaking and close racing is a priority and stop pitstops under VSC/SC, and, for teams to catchup with the current huge advantage Redbull has. I think in time teams will catch up until the next reset, but the pitstop thing and rulings are still poor. This season they've not had the close competition where we scrutinize decisions as much between two close contenders, but the decisions have still been inconsistent. We just don't talk about them as much as they don't matter.

If Ferrari hadn't imploded in reliability and strategy midway through this season Leclerc would be either leading, or very close in the championship.

Or is it simply that Mercedes aren't leading? We need to change the rules until Mercedes are ahead again and untouchable by anybody on the grid?

 

[jaybee]

If Ferrari hadn't imploded in reliability and strategy midway through this season Leclerc would be either leading, or very close in the championship.

Or is it simply that Mercedes aren't leading? We need to change the rules until Mercedes are ahead again and untouchable by anybody on the grid?

Agreed. I'd like to see a true 3 way team battle at the top but that might be asking a lot.
I don't care which three teams. I support various drivers including but not limited to Hamilton. I don't really "support Merc" as such. I like Mclaren as have family that work for them.

 

[Armageus]

Because the rule is there to prevent dangerous incidents like exactly what almost happened. You're not allowed to pull up alongside the car in front, that was made absolutely crystal clear after his shenanigans last year. If you were allowed to do it but "give the place back" it'd open up a huge can of worms and end up being the same as circa 2021 where P2 was pulling alongside P1 at a restart. It's nonsense.

If the car in front deliberately slams the brakes on and you overshoot is it really that clear cut?

Sorry, but that's absolute typical Max hating nonsense. Lando was full throttle then braked hard. Even as a Lando fan, I think it was Norris causing the issue rather than Max. Carlos did very similar, although much less pronounced, to Lewis.

Drivers should be maintaining a constant predictable speed under VSC. Not speeding up and braking hard.

I'd agree with this - whilst I get that drivers want to keep everything warm while sat under a VSC/SC, it's supposed to be a constant lap delta, not rapid acceleration followed by harsh breaking to maintain the delta. It's almost akin to slowing down when you see a speed camera.

F1 has become broken yet the pundits like to keep going on about how F1 is in such a good place right now.

Is F1 actually broken though? I enjoyed the race - I thought there was quite a lot of action - would Hamilton have got past Sainz if he hadn't crashed? Would Russell's tyres have come good had there not been so many incidents? Could Leclerc have caught Perez again if there weren't so many incidents.

That race was just another lottery whilst we keep allowing pit stops under VSC and Full SC.

Why should stops be banned under VSC/SC? Yes it's a gamble, but that's why the top teams have the top strategists to make the call - they know the risks of SC/VSC especially on circuits like Singapore. Sometimes people win because of Safety cars, sometimes they lose. Take it away and the sport will be even more boring,

and, for teams to catchup with the current huge advantage Redbull has.

The only way you stop huge advantages is to make it a spec series, which removes yet another variable that makes it interesting. Nobody complained when Mercedes had such a huge advantage, but suddenly when Red Bull do, it's a different story.

IF Red Bull have been cheating the budget cap to gain that huge advantage, then that's a different story

 

[Scam]

Sorry, but that's absolute typical Max hating nonsense. Lando was full throttle then braked hard.

Not really. Max had no business being right up Lando's rear under VSC conditions. That's the reason why it looked dangerous. You can't follow someone that closely and call "brake check" when he slows (for the corner). This wasn't racing conditions, Max was trying it on as he always does.

Drivers should be maintaining a constant predictable speed under VSC. Not speeding up and braking hard.

As above. I don't have time to hunt down the rulebook but I'd be interested to know what the rules are around car distancing under VSC.

 

[Bug One]

I'd love it if it was actually Haas overspent last season. How many times did Mick and Nikita wrap those cars around a barrier?

You can afford lots of new bits of aero for the cost of an entire replacement car.

 

[Bug One]

Not really. Max had no business being right up Lando's rear under VSC conditions. That's the reason why it looked dangerous. You can't follow someone that closely and call "brake check" when he slows (for the corner). This wasn't racing conditions, Max was trying it on as he always does.

As above. I don't have time to hunt down the rulebook but I'd be interested to know what the rules are around car distancing under VSC.

The rule is really simple, the distance should be maintained. Max was within half a second when the VSC started.

I expect this is an entirely different scenario though. Perfectly fine.

 

[Locky]

I thought Max was pretty close to breaking Max’s rule. I’m quite surprised that wasn’t flagged up as being under investigation.

Max seems to get away with more than others drivers..

 

[jaybee]

If the car in front deliberately slams the brakes on and you overshoot is it really that clear cut?


I'd agree with this - whilst I get that drivers want to keep everything warm while sat under a VSC/SC, it's supposed to be a constant lap delta, not rapid acceleration followed by harsh breaking to maintain the delta. It's almost akin to slowing down when you see a speed camera.


Is F1 actually broken though? I enjoyed the race - I thought there was quite a lot of action - would Hamilton have got past Sainz if he hadn't crashed? Would Russell's tyres have come good had there not been so many incidents? Could Leclerc have caught Perez again if there weren't so many incidents.


Why should stops be banned under VSC/SC? Yes it's a gamble, but that's why the top teams have the top strategists to make the call - they know the risks of SC/VSC especially on circuits like Singapore. Sometimes people win because of Safety cars, sometimes they lose. Take it away and the sport will be even more boring,


The only way you stop huge advantages is to make it a spec series, which removes yet another variable that makes it interesting. Nobody complained when Mercedes had such a huge advantage, but suddenly when Red Bull do, it's a different story.

IF Red Bull have been cheating the budget cap to gain that huge advantage, then that's a different story

The point is we want a fair race. If you want a lottery, you watch stock car racing or something. This is top level world motorsport where every ounce of performance and strategy are fought over. To have so many of the race results affected by lottery is not really what most F1 fans - let alone the teams - want. You can only strategize for so many random events, and most things in F1 are known variables they can plan for. Is it fair when someone has basically put the work in, effectively won a race with a few laps to go with a massive lead, only for an unlucky placement/timing of a safety car to ruin their race? No it's not. We can control this but FIA chose not to change the rules.

 

[Scam]

The rule is really simple, the distance should be maintained. Max was within half a second when the VSC started.

I know that part of the VSC rules but surely there is some consideration to maintaining a safe distance when not under race conditions. I can't imagine the rules allow for two cars side-by-side when the VSC is called - to trundle around the circuit next to each other under the VSC?

I expect this is an entirely different scenario though. Perfectly fine.

It's similar but at least they both looks to be maintaining a steady speed (both of them a lot slower) and not weaving about etc. He certainly doesn't look like he's seeking an advantage like Max was. I don't understand why Lando and Verstappen were going so much quicker in any case.

 

[Bug One]

The point is we want a fair race. If you want a lottery, you watch stock car racing or something. This is top level world motorsport where every ounce of performance and strategy are fought over. To have so many of the race results affected by lottery is not really what most F1 fans - let alone the teams - want. You can only strategize for so many random events, and most things in F1 are known variables they can plan for. Is it fair when someone has basically put the work in, effectively won a race with a few laps to go with a massive lead, only for an unlucky placement/timing of a safety car to ruin their race? No it's not. We can control this but FIA chose not to change the rules.

Oh god, are you still crying about Abu Dhabi.

 

[Bug One]

I know that part of the VSC rules but surely there is some consideration to maintaining a safe distance when not under race conditions. I can't imagine the rules allow for two cars side-by-side when the VSC is called - to trundle around the circuit next to each other under the VSC?

It's similar but at least they both looks to be maintaining a steady speed (both of them a lot slower) and not weaving about etc. He certainly doesn't look like he's seeking an advantage like Max was. I don't understand why Lando and Verstappen were going so much quicker in any case.

Blimey, those rosy eyed glasses are very effective. Lewis was onto the radio seconds later complaining that Carlos brake checked him.

 

[jaybee]

The VSC in itself is not effective in it's current form either anyway. You have winners and losers from something that is supposed to "neutralize the race". I don't mean just the pistops. I mean that people game the deltas causing safety issues as above where they try to time their delta being negative to allow acceleration towards their guess at the random end point. VSC should be safe as first priority whislt they clear the track. Some of the driving we see is absolutely not something we should be seeing during a VSC as it's highly unsafe. It needs looking at as a whole.

 

[Slam62]

In hindsight that race was a humongous waste of time, I really can't see anything interesting happening for the rest of the season.

 

[MissChief]

The VSC in itself is not effective in it's current form either anyway. You have winners and losers from something that is supposed to "neutralize the race". I don't mean just the pistops. I mean that people game the deltas causing safety issues as above where they try to time their delta being negative to allow acceleration towards their guess at the random end point. VSC should be safe as first priority whislt they clear the track. Some of the driving we see is absolutely not something we should be seeing during a VSC as it's highly unsafe. It needs looking at as a whole.

Should the VSC be for a minimum of one lap, and only stopped when the leader crosses the start/finish line of the next lap after the reason for the caution is cleared? At least that will be more consistent and no one should lose out. Everyone knows when racing will resume.

 

[Bug One]

I wonder if they could add that they have to run with something like the pit limiter, so all cars are forced to go the same speed during VSC.

 

[jaybee]

Oh god, are you still crying about Abu Dhabi.

I believe posts like this were discouraged a long time ago. It's not really going to enable anything positive in terms of discussion is it?

 

[jaybee]

I wonder if they could add that they have to run with something like the pit limiter, so all cars are forced to go the same speed during VSC.

We talked about this before and the main criticism was that it is too dangerous to suddenly cut to a limiter and could damage engines etc, or cause a shift in car balance so severe so as to cause accident. I'm not sure how you could instantaneously apply it to ALL cars at any point on a circuit. Still thinking...

 

[Bug One]

I see your point. But I'm sure it's possible to introduce a gradual reduction in power to then settle at set speed safely. Would do less damage than the way they slam the limiter on and off during pit stops.

But on the flip side, do we really want to eliminate drama from the race.

 

[jaybee]

I see your point. But I'm sure it's possible to introduce a gradual reduction in power to then settle at set speed safely. Would do less damage than the way they slam the limiter on and off during pit stops.

But on the flip side, do we really want to eliminate drama from the race.

Yeah to be fair, even if there was an instant track wide limiter application of ANY sort, there would still be some minor winners and losers. Think of some of the tracks with very, very slow 1st/2nd gear hair pins; if someone enters one of those just as the limiter kicked in, they may still be well under the limiter speed and are able to accelerate UP TO the limiter. The other extreme would be someone on the main straight who only see's their speed cut. But then...when they come round to the same hair pin I guess they would make the speed back up? It's too much for my brain to work out. There's enough money in F1 for some boffin to make something better surely?

 

[jaybee]

I can think of a way actually.... everyone enters the pits and queues at the end of it, then a traffic light system releases them all when track ready with the light going green for each delta gap between drivers. i.e. Red light flashes to green after 2.5 seconds then back to red, then again after 5.6 seconds etc. Until all cars are released. A problem which makes this almost extremely unlikely to ever work is the car temps whilst they are sat there for minutes would make it impossible as they will all over heat. So yeah nah... back to the drawing board.