got a third worth bothing with masters?

A third is pretty awful
I would not employ someone with a third without some exceptional circumstances.

There will be a wealth of 2:1 graduates in biology.
I did a biological science and jobs directly related are poor without a PhD. Even then pay and even job satisfaction is far from guaranteed.

I regret doing molecular biology and I got a 2:1. It wasn't an easy subject and majority of jobs are poor that are directly related.

Mind, 5 years does make me think: did the guy do a foundation year + 4 year undergrad masters? If his third year's better than a Third, I'd be tempted to advise to just claim the bog standard BSc with better honours if at all possible. Also if OP's son has a placement year under his belt, which is also possible here, then I'd recommend he gets a good written reference from the place he placed with.

datalol-jack said:

Mind, 5 years does make me think: did the guy do a foundation year + 4 year undergrad masters? If his third year's better than a Third, I'd be tempted to advise to just claim the bog standard BSc with better honours if at all possible. Also if OP's son has a placement year under his belt, which is also possible here, then I'd recommend he gets a good written reference from the place he placed with.

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yes there was a year (or 2 ) foundation, but the last year of the 3 year degree was failed and he did it again the next year (so overall not good). - no placement year!!!

the hole thing does seem like a major fail to me, 5 years to get a 3rd.. (not that I know what a 3rd it though from the comments here its a just about pass)... what makes me lean towards the not bothering any more is the 2 highest marks he got were from 2 bits of work I wrote for him (in 2 - 3 hours knowing nothing about the subject).. I did the work because he forgot to do them... (i got 90 and 85% his average i think was 40% overall)

edscdk said:

yes there was a year (or 2 ) foundation, but the last year of the 3 year degree was failed and he did it again the next year (so overall not good). - no placement year!!!

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Thanks. It's a clearer picture now.

edscdk said:

the hole thing does seem like a major fail to me, 5 years to get a 3rd.. (not that I know what a 3rd it though from the comments here its a just about pass)... what makes me lean towards the not bothering any more is the 2 highest marks he got were from 2 bits of work I wrote for him (in 2 - 3 hours knowing nothing about the subject).. I did the work because he forgot to do them... (i got 90 and 85% his average i think was 40% overall)

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I don't mean to sounds harsh, but given the above: get him into a job, then explore adult apprenticeships and distance learning to perhaps make some use of the degree in the end (look into Natural Sciences/Open Degree with the OU; I don't think they have a separate Biology degree anymore).

As for degree grades, they broadly fall into the following classes:
First
2:1
2:2
Third
No honours

A third is the lowest honours one can get, indicating that the student has completed the bare minimum of work at an acceptable level to pass. Even from Oxbridge that would raise eyebrows, and from the sounds of it the chap doesn't have high prior qualifications to fall back on.

How was he offered a place on a masters with a third? Did he do some good work in at least some of the modules and get a good recommendation from tutors within the same university?

Is it an optional '4th year' (yeah I know you've mentioned he's taken 5 including foundation year + repeating first year) to get an undergrad masters? In which case maybe it is worthwhile if he is prepared to work hard as he could boost his overall degree result and maybe scrape a 2:1.

dowie said:

How was he offered a place on a masters with a third? Did he do some good work in at least some of the modules and get a good recommendation from tutors within the same university?

Is it an optional '4th year' (yeah I know you've mentioned he's taken 5 including foundation year + repeating first year) to get an undergrad masters? In which case maybe it is worthwhile if he is prepared to work hard as he could boost his overall degree result and maybe scrape a 2:1.

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He could've been offered a 2 year masters which includes a separately graded PgDip (with which you'll end up if you fail to go up to MSc standard or fail that year). The first year is to make up for the low undergraduate grade, and is a re-run by any other name. The second year is a full on MSc course. International students end up on these often enough too, or people moving fields. Reason: it's a decent money-maker for the uni; postgrad loans are also now open to students who've already had their undergrad years paid.

Just another thought, if it is a post grad masters, he could always ask to defer for a year if he's unsure... keeps the option open for him.

Maybe he goes out and finds work he enjoys, maybe the work he finds gives him a reality check. The option to pursue the masters is still there and the prospects available to him when trying for a career without a decent academic background become clearer to him then. Maybe he becomes and excellent salesman in spite of the poor degree or maybe he trains for some professional or vocational exams... alternatively maybe he has massive regrets then goes for the masters and works his ass off.

I would first ask him to truthfully reflect why he got a third.

I nearly completely screwed mine up due to not getting my finger out for my final project. Another factor was me focusing on social and women rather than study. If I had the opportunity to do a masters I would certainly take it. Rather difficult further down the road, so IF he has the motivation, then I'd say go for it.

A friend of mine managed to get a third (we're not sure how as we were expecting him to get a 2:1 but he seemed to do badly in his final year project and exams) and he went on to do a Msc. I think he would have preferred to go on to do a Phd but given his result he thought it better to try to get a good Msc before looking in that direction again

Thread is a bit harsh so far lol. I'd have thought the main thing to focus on is he made it through Uni and has a degree - good for him. I wouldn't underestimate how hard and stressful Uni can be to some. Everyone learns at a different pace, unfortunately the teaching is often too generalised, while it works for some it def doesn't work for all.

No offence OP but your son sounds like a waster to me.

He has crippled himself with debt and would I be right in assuming you have wasted £££ of your own money supporting him at university?

Get him in the Army or something?

Bluntwrapped said:

Thread is a bit harsh so far lol. I'd have thought the main thing to focus on is he made it through Uni and has a degree - good for him. I wouldn't underestimate how hard and stressful Uni can be to some. Everyone learns at a different pace, unfortunately the teaching is often too generalised, while it works for some it def doesn't work for all.

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He's still young and this setback isn't something that cannot be undone. However, it's also important to survey realistic options on the table and avoid 'escaping into education' for just one more year in hopes something outside one's control will change. The uni isn't an altruistic agent in this scenario either: they want bums on seats paying fees and decent statistics for as long as possible; what this approach does to the lives of their students, you may discover to your shock and horror, stops being their business once you're out the door and filled out their exit and career surveys. It'd be best to seek independent careers advice, and go from there.

From what the OP posted about having to do some pieces of work for him (and those being the ones he got the highest marks on), it just sounds like he wasn't interested in putting the effort in rather than struggling academically.

I didn't go to uni for my final year (except for handing in paper coursework), and I still managed a first in half my modules (including the dissertation) and a decent 2:1 overall.

Some people just aren't wired that way. Nothing wrong with that, just sounds like he would have been better off on an apprenticeship or working in a job with a definite progression path for a few years.

From my experience, paying to do a masters will probably just result in another year of tuition fees and another sub-par grade (maybe even a fail - masters courses are generally less handheld than undergraduate and more weighted towards the project).

I'm involved with microbiology and I can honestly say I've never seen a research Masters available to anyone with a third.
They might have taught masters available but they aren't generally worth the time.

Best thing to do is get an entry level job in a lab, such as in the NHS or QC, gain some experience and then go for promotion/training opportunities.

craptakular said:

No offence OP but your son sounds like a waster to me.

He has crippled himself with debt and would I be right in assuming you have wasted £££ of your own money supporting him at university?

Get him in the Army or something?

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'No offense OP but I'm going to offend you'

I work in careers and can say that there are plenty of graduate schemes that don't have min reqs for degree classification or care about the subject area. Off the top of my head;

Enterprise Rent a Car
Aldi
XPO Logistics

I'm sure I'll remember more when I've got more than 2 minutes spare.

Deiwos said:

'No offense OP but I'm going to offend you'

I work in careers and can say that there are plenty of graduate schemes that don't have min reqs for degree classification or care about the subject area. Off the top of my head;

Enterprise Rent a Car
Aldi
XPO Logistics

I'm sure I'll remember more when I've got more than 2 minutes spare.

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which begs the question of why they even require a degree in the first place?

Some good info thanks to those that replied

dowie said:

which begs the question of why they even require a degree in the first place?

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All 3 that I mentioned have internal programmes for promotion etc, the graduate schemes just fast track it to an extent.

Obviously these companies and the others out there look at far more than the degree classification. What knowledge have they developed in the subject area? What skills have the got? Any extracurricular activities etc.

Requiring a degree really just helps them filter out a certain number of potential applicants. All these companies have other routes for non-grads.

The Enterprise Rent a Car graduate scheme is nonsense, just FYI.

Working 60 hours a week, cleaning cars in a suit, basically being treated like crap (constantly being called and nagged whilst driving), and a high drop out rate. Plus they end up offering everyone on it the same position - Assistant Branch Manager, of which there may be several in one branch, all fighting against each other to get a promotion, which invariably goes to the person most willing to screw everyone else over.

It's just a way of getting people to do a pretty basic job which most people on minimum wage wouldn't be happy to do. Fine for a stop gap, but it's not a graduate scheme in the proper sense of setting someone up for a career.

Whilst I don't think a masters is a wise idea now, it may very well later on. I got a third in my degree, regretted not studying harder so worked harder to compensate, 9 years on I'm a self employed InfoSec consultant Now I'm in a place whereby I'm looking to do my masters and funding it myself.

Hope your son finds his way.