Any downsides to a smart meter?

[200sols]

Smart meter figures: Nearly four million not working properly

Customers report being hit by hefty bills caused by smart meters not working properly.

www.bbc.co.uk

SMART meter

?

Are you suggesting billing errors are unique to smart meters now?

 

[Raymond Lin]

?

Are you suggesting billing errors are unique to smart meters now?

I am not suggesting anything, the article is REPORTING that 4 million of smart meters have errors.

Even if I allow 100% of the population and everyone live by themselves, that is still a FAR too high percentage. I am also not suggesting manual meters are perfect either, I am just saying I am happy to stick with what I know.

 

[200sols]

I am not suggesting anything, the article is REPORTING that 4 million of smart meters have errors.

Even if I allow 100% of the population and everyone live by themselves, that is still a FAR too high percentage.

It doesnt say 4 million people have crazy billing errors though. Vast majority just have to send in a manual reading, like I said billing errors are not and never have been unique to smart metering.

 

[Raymond Lin]

It doesnt say 4 million people have crazy billing errors though. Vast majority just have to send in a manual reading, like I said billing errors are not and never have been unique to smart metering.

Again, I am not suggesting old meters don't have errors. Do not confuse my stance against smart meter with errors with old meter.

Even if they have the same percentage of failure….I’d take the old one. That is basically where I am at the moment. It needs to be better, and by a lot. It doesn't need to be perfect but 4million is HUGE! I am not tempted by the savings, I am not tempted by the money, not even a little bit.

 

[200sols]

Again, I am not suggesting old meters don't have errors. Do not confuse my stance against smart meter with errors with old meter.

Even if they have the same percentage of failure….I’d take the old one. That is basically where I am at the moment. It needs to be better, and by a lot. 4million is HUGE! I am not tempted by the savings, I am not tempted by the money, not even a little bit.

Its certainly an odd stance, but since you are happy paying more than you need to I guess you have no reason to change.

 

[moogle]

In that BBC article, the first person had issues because the new meter wasn't registered properly? Sounds like a problem with the system rather than the meter. Just keep the records of the final read and take photos. There's quite a bit of irrational reasoning for not having one in this thread

Even if 4 million aren't working properly, the only bad thing about that is we end up paying for it collectively, but as has been said it continues to work as a normal meter.

 

[MartinPrince]

Its certainly an odd stance, but since you are happy paying more than you need to I guess you have no reason to change.

My tariff would stay exactly the same whether or not I have a Smart meter so why would I be paying more by not having one installed?

 

[Demon]

I am not suggesting anything, the article is REPORTING that 4 million of smart meters have errors.

Even if I allow 100% of the population and everyone live by themselves, that is still a FAR too high percentage. I am also not suggesting manual meters are perfect either, I am just saying I am happy to stick with what I know.

??? That article just says 4 million are not operating in their respective Smart mode..

You are making out it's a huge problem when all that happens is they fall back to being a normal meter.. and they are improving that.. you know the way they work internally is identical to the normal non smart digital readout meters?

Why would point no.1 be a lie? The meter runs on farts? Seriously, what is that screen run off of if not electricity? It’s not a zero amount. Unplug your smart meter, take out the batteries…does it still work with no power? I think not…so between the 2 of us, you are the liar.

Old fashioned spinning disc meters still use energy FFS.. and a Smart meter using 1kwh a year (so the BBC suggest) is literally bugger all.. Although ironically a smart meter would have the ability to correct for this more accurately should it be chosen..

No.2 is not a lie, plenty of people here have personal experience with this, just read the thread.

There is a path in play now allowing SMETS1 to be used as full smart meters (https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/our-smart-network/current-programmes/smets1-enrolment-and-adoption/).
SMETS2 have been installed since 2018 and some people opt to get their meters upgraded to SMETS2.. there are edge cases, but again, the meter doesn't stop working, it just defaults back to being a dumb meter..

As for point 5….IMO, less they know the better. I don’t see any advantage of them knowing my usage habit. These companies’ aim is to make as much money out of us, that is entirely their goal…data = knowledge and helps them to make more money out of us.

Yeah, which is why all the consumer advantageous money saving tarriffs all require a smart meter..

Tin foil or just grumpy old luddite? I suggest the latter..

 

[Raymond Lin]

??? That article just says 4 million are not operating in their respective Smart mode..

You are making out it's a huge problem when all that happens is they fall back to being a normal meter.. and they are improving that.. you know the way they work internally is identical to the normal non smart digital readout meters?

Old fashioned spinning disc meters still use energy FFS.. and a Smart meter using 1kwh a year (so the BBC suggest) is literally bugger all.. Although ironically a smart meter would have the ability to correct for this more accurately should it be chosen..


There is a path in play now allowing SMETS1 to be used as full smart meters (https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/our-smart-network/current-programmes/smets1-enrolment-and-adoption/).
SMETS2 have been installed since 2018 and some people opt to get their meters upgraded to SMETS2.. there are edge cases, but again, the meter doesn't stop working, it just defaults back to being a dumb meter..


Yeah, which is why all the consumer advantageous money saving tarriffs all require a smart meter..

Tin foil or just grumpy old luddite? I suggest the latter..

My criteria...

99% accuracy, price irrelevant. If an iPhone has 1% failure rate, it will have a recall and that is a luxury item. For essential items like a meter, I just don't accept a 4 mil error (out of like 20 million total smart meter users? probably much less), no matter the error, even going back down to being a dumb meter is still an error.

It either works, or I won't bother. It really does come down to that.

 

[moogle]

My tariff would stay exactly the same whether or not I have a Smart meter so why would I be paying more by not having one installed?

You don't get access to smart meter only tariffs, which can be cheaper (Octopus Tracker for one has been a good saving since the energy prices have been coming down).

My criteria...

99% accuracy, price irrelevant.

The smart meter is still accurate when it's not able to auto send readings? Although you can have a faulty manual meter and smart meter.

 

[bloodiedathame]

I wonder how many traditional meters are also not operating properly.

 

[Raymond Lin]

You don't get access to smart meter only tariffs, which can be cheaper (Octopus Tracker for one has been a good saving since the energy prices have been coming down).


The smart meter is still accurate when it's not able to auto send readings? Although you can have a faulty manual meter and smart meter.

A smart meter HAS to be smart. I don't care about savings if it doesn't do the thing in its name. If a smart meter turn dumb...give me back to dumb meter and old HIGHER price.

This is shooting my own knee cap and I would rather do that...! It is not logical, I know it but I despise things not doing what it is designed to do.

 

[moogle]

A smart meter HAS to be smart. I don't care about savings if it doesn't do the thing in its name. If a smart meter turn dumb...give me back to dumb meter and old HIGHER price.

This is shooting my own knee cap and I would rather do that...! It is not logical, I know it but I despise things not doing what it is designed to do.

Nothing to do with accuracy. It turns dumb temporarily but yes for the irrational reasoning I get it and there isn't a point trying to discuss it with that mindset

 

[200sols]

My tariff would stay exactly the same whether or not I have a Smart meter so why would I be paying more by not having one installed?

Use a smart tariff.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Nothing to do with accuracy. It turns dumb temporarily but yes for the irrational reasoning I get it and there isn't a point trying to discuss it with that mindset

It really is very simple for me....4mil error rate is too high. Get it working, not perfect, but I will even lower it to 5% failure rate. Then I will get one.

4 mil error means it doesn't do the thing in its name (the SMART bit), and to me, that is not ready and should be put into the bin.

 

[Demon]

My criteria...

99% accuracy, price irrelevant. If an iPhone has 1% failure rate, it will have a recall and that is a luxury item. For essential items like a meter, I just don't accept a 4 mil error (out of like 20 million total smart meter users? probably much less), no matter the error, even going back down to being a dumb meter is still an error.

It either works, or I won't bother. It really does come down to that.

It really is very simple for me....4mil error rate is too high. Get it working, not perfect, but I will even lower it to 5% failure rate. Then I will get one.

4 mil error means it doesn't do the thing in its name (the SMART bit), and to me, that is not ready and should be put into the bin.

You are falsely comparing hardware failures that leave something inoperable, and a smart meter not communicating..

I don't know how you conflate accuracy in to that?

All meters are subject to inaccuracy.. as I cited, I had a old fashioned spinning meter, then a digital non smart, then a smart meter, since I measure my own usage independently, my smart meter has been the most accurate.. the next best was the spinning meter, the worst was the broken digital meter.. but that was actually faulty..

What is the downside exactly? If communication issues are down to your area/environment, and they come along to try to fit a smart meter, but the upshot is for now you can't due to the laws of physics or other factors, then you end up with a 'dumb' meter again, one that is probably more 'accurate' then exactly how is this hurting you?

Anyway, bottom line, if you are happy as you are and don't want to reduce your costs by accessing smarter tarriffs, then so be it.. stick with what you feel comfortable with, but stop projecting this high level of irrationality to others..

 

[moogle]

It really is very simple for me....4mil error rate is too high. Get it working, not perfect, but 99%...then I will get one.

4 mil error means it doesn't do the thing in its name (the SMART bit), and to me, that is not ready and should be put into the bin.

That's not an error rate. I think with the irrational reasoning there is no point explaining or discussing points with you.

 

[Raymond Lin]

That's not an error rate. I think with the irrational reasoning there is no point explaining or discussing points with you.

If it stops being smart then it's no longer serves the very thing in it's name...that to me is pointless. (money doesn't matter).

You are falsely comparing hardware failures that leave something inoperable, and a smart meter not communicating..

I don't know how you conflate accuracy in to that?

All meters are subject to inaccuracy.. as I cited, I had a old fashioned spinning meter, then a digital non smart, then a smart meter, since I measure my own usage independently, my smart meter has been the most accurate.. the next best was the spinning meter, the worst was the broken digital meter.. but that was actually faulty..

What is the downside exactly? If communication issues are down to your area/environment, and they come along to try to fit a smart meter, but the upshot is for now you can't due to the laws of physics or other factors, then you end up with a 'dumb' meter again, one that is probably more 'accurate' then exactly how is this hurting you?

I despise things not doing the very thing it is meant to do, in this case, the smart bit. Yes normal old meters have errors too. So what am I swapping out for? One problem with another? I don't see the point.

Again, any savings don't matter.

 

[moogle]

If it stops being smart then it's no longer serves the very thing in it's name...that to me is pointless. (money doesn't matter).

To me, it isn't pointless because I benefit from cheaper rates and I couldn't care about the name. It could be called a free energy meter for all that matters.
If it somehow temporarily stops being smart sending readings, I'll submit manual ones whilst it's resolved remotely. In the last 6 years of use it's not been an issue so yeah.

Anyway, any personal reasons against them are only valid to yourself or those with those views which I guess at least you acknowledge.

 

[Bug One]

My electric bill for March will be negative, and will continue to be until October.

You won’t get that with a regular meter….

You can if the wheels go backwards.