Yea, delivery lorry wiped out the front end. Car was unoccupied.
11k in repairs @ BMW Coventry. Not written off thankfully.
Nice increase to the premium though.
House, 440i and GrandCmax was £1050 total. Now £1895. -.-
BMW and M Power Owners
- Thread starter panthro
- Start date
11k in repairs @ BMW Coventry. Not written off thankfully.
Nice increase to the premium though.
House, 440i and GrandCmax was £1050 total. Now £1895. -.-
ouch
Soldato
I’m thinking about getting a G20 3 series to replace the fiesta.
Fiesta is a cracking car but ultimately a tool to get my other half through her test and a years driving under her belt.
We’ve looked at quite a few cars, and originally settled on a clubman. Difficulties finding the right spec aside, she drove one and hated it.
Found the interior to be too busy and didn’t like the seating position at all.
The hunt began for something else, and after a trip to the most depressing BMW garage ever (Group 1 Littlehampton), Audi and VW, she settled on a favourite of the G20.
She’s a huge fan of manual, and really doesn’t like automatic gearboxes (doesn’t mind electric) - much like me. I tolerate my PDK but haven’t ever gotten on with other autos.
We’re thinking 2 (completely different) options:
320d manual
330e
Strangely both would suit our use case.
320d - she regularly travels to Wales, I drive 120 miles 2x a week for work.
330e - will happily do long journeys with a top up of fuel, but also can do all our shorter stuff electric only.
I love the G20 cabin, and the only option for me which is a must have is HK. Otherwise they seem well specced.
That said, have seen some cars with a smaller nav screen (I thought they were all 10 inch). Unsure if reversing camera is standard?
Anything else to look out for? Extended range tank on the 320d?
Fiesta is a cracking car but ultimately a tool to get my other half through her test and a years driving under her belt.
We’ve looked at quite a few cars, and originally settled on a clubman. Difficulties finding the right spec aside, she drove one and hated it.
Found the interior to be too busy and didn’t like the seating position at all.
The hunt began for something else, and after a trip to the most depressing BMW garage ever (Group 1 Littlehampton), Audi and VW, she settled on a favourite of the G20.
She’s a huge fan of manual, and really doesn’t like automatic gearboxes (doesn’t mind electric) - much like me. I tolerate my PDK but haven’t ever gotten on with other autos.
We’re thinking 2 (completely different) options:
320d manual
330e
Strangely both would suit our use case.
320d - she regularly travels to Wales, I drive 120 miles 2x a week for work.
330e - will happily do long journeys with a top up of fuel, but also can do all our shorter stuff electric only.
I love the G20 cabin, and the only option for me which is a must have is HK. Otherwise they seem well specced.
That said, have seen some cars with a smaller nav screen (I thought they were all 10 inch). Unsure if reversing camera is standard?
Anything else to look out for? Extended range tank on the 320d?
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
If you get an M Sport, everything you need - including the reversing camera and larger navigation screen which also gives you the much better digital display - is standard fit. Almost every car is an M Sport so the other ones are quite rare and not many people realise they have an older version of the navigation system.
There is absolutely no way I would get one of these cars with a manual gearbox. The manual wasn't sold for very long anyway, there are not many around and they are almost all very low specification cars.
The automatic is one of the best automatic gearboxes ever made.
This will limit you to an M Sport anyway, whilst it is in theory possible to find a car that isn't an M Sport and has this option I have never seen one. It is part of the Technology Package which also adds wireless charging and head up display.
HOWEVER..
There were significant specification changes during COVID and one of these is that the head up display and upgraded audio was reserved for M Performance cars only during this time, so many 2021 and 2022 cars won't have either.
There is absolutely no way I would get one of these cars with a manual gearbox. The manual wasn't sold for very long anyway, there are not many around and they are almost all very low specification cars.
The automatic is one of the best automatic gearboxes ever made.
This will limit you to an M Sport anyway, whilst it is in theory possible to find a car that isn't an M Sport and has this option I have never seen one. It is part of the Technology Package which also adds wireless charging and head up display.
HOWEVER..
There were significant specification changes during COVID and one of these is that the head up display and upgraded audio was reserved for M Performance cars only during this time, so many 2021 and 2022 cars won't have either.
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you won't replace amp like for other bm ?, so is it worth paying a premium for HK - just aftermarket dspamp & if needed 4speakers+sub, using phone for streaming quality source media.
Soldato
My 135i has the HiFi system, so essentially equal to HK less the DSP/amp.
The base stereo is a speaker in each door and 6.5 under front seats only. Can’t be hassled with the faff of upgrading it all - I’ve been down that road on my S5 and I was never happy with the results.
For me, it’s a must - the only one I have really
Soldato
How come?
Maybe, but I’ve owned 2 cars with it and detested it both times. I thoroughly enjoy driving a manual.
Heard the 330e is quite different due to electric motor torque fill.
Soldato
I couldn’t remember when this occurred exactly. I don’t think 2021 cars will be in budget anyhow, thankfully. So won’t have to navigate this issue
It's a large saloon car, not a sports car. It doesn't suit a manual gearbox and in addition is very difficult to find with one. I can't remember when it changed but by late 2020 you could only buy the 318i or the 318d with a manual gearbox, everything else was auto only. The only reason it existed in this car was to keep the price low. I think the 320d was available at first but only for about a year of production. Then it was removed from sale.
The automatic box is excellent and suits the car perfectly.
I'd estimate your chances of finding a car with a good specification and a manual gearbox is essentially zero. The fact you're looking at manuals probably explains why you're finding some of the earlier cars which didn't have the full digital dashboard and the later version of iDrive - this was standard on the M Sport and is, in my view, essential.
You're going to want an M Sport car with the Technology Pack - this will get you the stereo you want and a really good specification for the rest of the car.
I enjoy driving a manual too, in the right car.
An 1800kg 4 cylinder diesel saloon is not the right car
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Soldato
It's a large saloon car, not a sports car. It doesn't suit a manual gearbox and in addition is very difficult to find with one. I can't remember when it changed but by late 2020 you only buy the 318i or the 318d with a manual gearbox, everything else was auto only. The only reason it existed in this car was to keep the price low. I think the 320d was available at first but only for about a year of production. Then it was removed from sale.
The automatic box is excellent and suits the car perfectly.
I'd estimate your chances of finding a car with a good specification and a manual gearbox is essentially zero. The fact you're looking at manuals probably explains why you're finding some of the earlier cars which didn't have the full digital dashboard and the later version of iDrive - this was standard on the M Sport and is, in my view, essential.
I enjoy driving a manual too, in the right car.
An 1800kg 4 cylinder diesel saloon is not the right car
I will be test driving one, but having owned an F31 320d already, with the ZF8, and the S5, also with the ZF8, I’m not convinced.
I don’t enjoy driving a manual because it’s more sporty - I actually think the PDK is more sporty in my Boxster, for example. I like driving them because:
I like being in more control of gears and speed
I genuinely love changing gear no matter the situation.
On a motorway, nothing beats 6th gear pull. Manual on motorway is king. No waiting for kickdown to overtake. No faffing. Just torque.
I have to say I'm really surprised by your thoughts/descriptions of auto boxes - most of the modern German ones are sublime. Is there a chance they were all somehow broken? 
The ZF8 on modern software, in sport mode, is incredibly responsive. I can't see how it could be better!
The ZF8 on modern software, in sport mode, is incredibly responsive. I can't see how it could be better!
I think we've had this conversation before and I was as confused then as I am now
I have now had 3 cars with that gearbox and it is absolutely excellent. Always in the right gear, always ready for effortless performance. By comparison a manual gearbox with a 4 cylinder diesel really isn't a very nice combination at all.
I have now had 3 cars with that gearbox and it is absolutely excellent. Always in the right gear, always ready for effortless performance. By comparison a manual gearbox with a 4 cylinder diesel really isn't a very nice combination at all.
I'm pretty quick at gear changes.
My 440i beats me hands down by a 1000%.
The switches are crazy quick, much faster than me changing gears.
I think you're incorrect.
Soldato
I have to say I'm really surprised by your thoughts/descriptions of auto boxes - most of the modern German ones are sublime. Is there a chance they were all somehow broken?
The ZF8 on modern software, in sport mode, is incredibly responsive. I can't see how it could be better!
Sport is responsive but hangs onto gears too long for 24/7 driving. Also tanked the MPG on my S5.
In normal mode it makes the accelerator feel like mush.
I didn’t say it was quicker to change manually though, just that I prefer to do so.
I think we've had this conversation before and I was as confused then as I am now
I have now had 3 cars with that gearbox and it is absolutely excellent. Always in the right gear, always ready for effortless performance. By comparison a manual gearbox with a 4 cylinder diesel really isn't a very nice combination at all.
As I say, I’ll check one out, but I’ve always had a preference for changing gear myself.
My experience is the opposite to you. Especially with roundabouts. Always seemingly in the wrong gear :/
The manual doesn’t have to be a nice experience (heck, I enjoy the chocolate box in the fiesta). I like the control it gives me
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thought there were a lot of 330e's ex-company bik-savers, neighbour next door has one,
as a 2nd hand owner I'm not convinced fuel saving on the real local journeys, would offset the increased depreciation due to long term maintenance/reliability,
it wouldn't do a round-trip commute of 50miles, battery would be a dead-weight for longer weekend trips too.
Similarly for automatic gearbox, longer term maintenance £300/£400 for refill, is not, negligible, and on top of the driveability(accurate control of engine braking/mutiple-gear change down/holding gear you want)
not sure I see it's value on local country roads, if you are subjected to daily urban driving and jams every day, maybe I would think differently.
Mild-hybrid technology too, manufacturer cutting emissions for fleet market with a longer term reliability question mark for 2nd hand owners.
as a 2nd hand owner I'm not convinced fuel saving on the real local journeys, would offset the increased depreciation due to long term maintenance/reliability,
it wouldn't do a round-trip commute of 50miles, battery would be a dead-weight for longer weekend trips too.
Similarly for automatic gearbox, longer term maintenance £300/£400 for refill, is not, negligible, and on top of the driveability(accurate control of engine braking/mutiple-gear change down/holding gear you want)
not sure I see it's value on local country roads, if you are subjected to daily urban driving and jams every day, maybe I would think differently.
Mild-hybrid technology too, manufacturer cutting emissions for fleet market with a longer term reliability question mark for 2nd hand owners.
Soldato
I agree with you there, there is something peculiar about a diesel auto that when you slow down at a roundabout and then decide its ok to go and put your foot down only to find the car has to think about it for what seems an eternity before it actually does something, it borders on dangerous sometimes. Its something a petrol auto doesnt seem to suffer from. That said, in all other situations, an auto box is very much suited to a diesel as it keeps you effortlessly rolling on that wave of torque
Soldato
Every auto box struggles with roundabouts for me, wouldn’t say it’s a diesel only thing in my personal experience.
No doubt that accelerating though gears is best in an auto, for keeping you in the usual torque zone. But it’s more about the moment at which you go to accelerate.
That slight hesitation while the box tries to work out what to do. Even though it’s seemingly quick once it takes action, it feels like it takes a little too long to figure it out when in comfort.
I found 50-60 the worst offenders.
Not enough torque that the car wants to stay in 8th, so it usually has to kick down for you to make progress. 6th gear manual? Lean on the accelerator and the car just picks up.
I’m sure it’s very different in a 30d. Something to do with the extra torque. The Aisin box in my dad’s V8 diesel cayenne is okay. But it does still hesitate at that point at which you’ve put your foot down just enough to make the car question if you want it to kick down or stay in gear.
I tolerate the PDK because it’s SO well calibrated. Yes it still struggles with roundabouts. But you can force a very quick gear change, even in normal mode, by just giving the accelerator a quick amount of defined pressure. It’s immediate in how it responds.
I’m really intrigued to see if the hybrid changes things. I’ve read that it doesn’t have the standard torque converter part of the ZF8 and the electric fill might change how it feels.
I’ll definitely try out an auto as software tuning is always worked on, and a G20 will be differently tuned to an F31 and Audi B9.
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This isn't because it's an automatic it's because it's in 8th gear instead of 6th?
If it was that much of an issue you can instantly shift manually down to 6th anyway but the fact that in a decade of driving cars when this gearbox (2 530d and an M340i) I've used the manual shift about 4 times suggests it's just never an issue.
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I'll be £1800 for a Ford Fiesta and a BMW M2 this year :/
Soldato
You're right, but equally your point is irrelevant, in the nicest way possible.
Irrespective of the cause, the effect is that you have to use slight work arounds to get it to function as well as a manual in these conditions.
This is the biggest problem for me with the autos. The (small) challenges I have with them can be overcome with manually changing gear, or using sport mode, for example, but that's just to make them as good as a manual - so why not just get a manual?
Also, as quick as the shifting is, it isn't quick enough. In 6th gear I apply pressure and I'm off - no gear changes required. Yes, it takes a small amount of effort, but I just find it frustrating when I need to do it several times on a journey. This is exactly why I don't mind electric - immediate torque response. No gears*
*Obviously there is the odd exception
This was never a question about whether I should go auto or manual - my personal preference is manual and I've given the reasons with examples why.
That said, I will definitely try an auto in case it's a lot better - I have nothing against having one if it isn't as annoying as it has been on my F31 and S5. Perhaps it's a different experience in the 530d and M340i due to the added torque. The S5 was better than the 320d and I suspected at the time that it was for that reason.