Poll: Death Penalty - Yay or Nay

[Columbo]

Nope and nope some more.
It isn't a deterrent and it is not punitive or a punishment, its pure revenge and that never ends well. In addition the justice system in some so called '1st' world economies is as gamed as some of the more corrupt 3rd world systems, you only have to look at some the cases in the US of miscarriages of justice to see that evidence and fact can sometimes have very little effect on the decision of a jury.

Some great inside looks on BBC3 at the effect on both the victims and perpetrators families at the below link while running up to a death sentence being carried out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b071jy7p/episodes/player

 

[Trusty]

Oh please. People disappear all the time within the UK that pose a threat to national security - and all under the guise of prevention of terrorism.

Hmm, i get that but i think it's wholly different to legal state sanctioned public killings where we would be reading about it in the media. Reading bbc articles about state sanctioned death wouldn't sit well with me.

 

[Sliver]

Nope and nope some more.
It isn't a deterrent and it is not punitive or a punishment,

 

[eldergeek]

Hmm, i get that but i think it's wholly different to legal state sanctioned public killings where we would be reading about it in the media. Reading bbc articles about state sanctioned death wouldn't sit well with me.

So you're ok with people who pose a legitimate and credible threat to national security being offed, but you don't sanction someone who's clearly a risk to the general public receiving the same fate?

 

[drunkenmaster]

No death penalty, natural life in prison, there are still mistakes but you can release a living prisoner if a mistake is found.

But you can put an innocent person in jail for 40 years, find out they are innocent and release say a 60-70yr old man with 5-20 years left to live in poverty, with no friends of family(most people in jail that long lose everyone), no kids, no job prospects after 40 years of torture. I don't know about you but I'd prefer a quick painless death in the first year than 40 years of torture in jail then a horrendously lonely pointless 'freedom'.

In reality death penalty should be brought back in and doesn't have to cost more than normal jailing. It frankly should be an option if a criminal wants to die rather than spend life in jail. If a criminal chooses it, and won't fight it, bingo, it's incredibly cheap. The cost of death penalty cases in the states is the decades of appeals and the higher cost of keeping prisoners on death row, they are more secure and have higher costs, but the lawyer fees in appeals run into the millions upon millions.

El Chapo, we know he's guilty, he just killed a judge who was to cover his case. Just kill the guy, he both deserves it, his guilt is unquestioned... come on, he just killed another guy from behind his jail cell and not a drug addict or another gang member, but a judge.

If a guy is caught red handed with absolutely no possibility of innocence, why not make the death penalty available. People bang on and on about innocent people getting caught out, well it's simple, reserve it solely for cases where innocence isn't a question.

Some people are past help and while in jail will continue to hurt other people. You get someone who has a minor drug crime and a year in jail but he's in alongside a completely horrific criminal with life left to serve, who decides to bully, beat, and maybe rape that lesser criminal throughout his time in jail. That lesser criminal comes out broken, angry, unable to function in society and decides to turn to rape, murder, whatever.

The worst criminals continue to have effects beyond just their jail cell throughout their lives. I also think prison itself is pretty much torture, even beyond what other inmates can do to you, being locked up for that long will change anyone, some it might calm down, some it might turn insane, angry and ready to do more harm when they get out. A painless death for those who want it or those who are beyond any question guilty, hard evidence for which can never be questioned, I see absolutely no reason not to have the death penalty.

 

[DrToffnar]

Hang them high.

Only lefties would say no.

Ahhh Deuse, as constructive as ever.


Got nothing to do with the moral weight of the decision making for me. I just do not believe a state that exercises the threat of death can expect it's general public to be decent and honest. It should reflect only the best qualities it expects in it's people. Killing someone does not balance out some universal scale of decency. It is a worthless, lazy and morally cheap way of dealing with miscreants that does nothing to address the root cause of crime.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

But you can put an innocent person in jail for 40 years, find out they are innocent and release say a 60-70yr old man with 5-20 years left to live in poverty, with no friends of family(most people in jail that long lose everyone), no kids, no job prospects after 40 years of torture. I don't know about you but I'd prefer a quick painless death in the first year than 40 years of torture in jail then a horrendously lonely pointless 'freedom'.

wow!

 

[eldergeek]

Ahhh Deuse, as constructive as ever.


Got nothing to do with the moral weight of the decision making for me. I just do not believe a state that exercises the threat of death can expect it's general public to be decent and honest. It should reflect only the best qualities it expects in it's people. Killing someone does not balance out some universal scale of decency. It is a worthless, lazy and morally cheap way of dealing with miscreants that does nothing to address the root cause of crime.

I like your country. Where do you live that you have a government that nice?

 

[Sliver]

Got nothing to do with the moral weight of the decision making for me. I just do not believe a state that exercises the threat of death can expect it's general public to be decent and honest. It should reflect only the best qualities it expects in it's people. Killing someone does not balance out some universal scale of decency. It is a worthless, lazy and morally cheap way of dealing with miscreants that does nothing to address the root cause of crime.

Not in every case though. Several cases which are black and white have been mentioned in this thread and there are probably thousands every year where you could say without doubt that 'X' happened and 'Y' is the perpetrator. So it's as simple as you say. Some people do not deserve the right to exist amongst the rest of us, that is just a fact. Just like when the police shoot a mad dog for killing a baby human...............

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I think all criminals serving a life sentence should be rounded up and nuked from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

[Trusty]

So you're ok with people who pose a legitimate and credible threat to national security being offed, but you don't sanction someone who's clearly a risk to the general public receiving the same fate?

It depends, i'm a realist, i realise sometime these things happen, if someone posed a threat to national security and was planning to bomb/kill dozens of people in one go, i'd imagine the line get's blurred quite easily. It may be easier to kill the person than risk losing them within society. I think isolated individual instances like a murderer who kills a person is different. These murders are usually some form of revenge, there's usually a relationship between the people. They shouldn't be a risk to society anymore if they are locked up correctly and it provides a public image which is better than state sanctioned death. Do you think state sanctioned death gives a country a good image? Do you think society would progress better with legalised killing? Would you kill a murderer who you about to catch in the act?

 

[Bickaxe]

I used to think yes but now edge more towards somewhere in between.
Which crimes are punishable once you have a confession?
And how do you decide on the method?

Or should it be a Game of Thrones Trial by Combat style or a Running Man Event on Pay Per View?

 

[FutileBreadMachine]

I'm an atheist, so I believe when you die it's just like going to sleep, therefore I don't support the death penalty. The guilty should be made to live in suffering for as long as possible. There is no rehabilitation for murderers.

 

[Chris Wilson]

How many murders have been committed in the UK by those released from prison after a similar crime was committed by them? I am liking drunkemater's post, makes a reasonable balance. I have reservations about hanging the wrong man, the Bakewell Tart murder comes to mind:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Downing_case


But there's no such thing as perfection, and I personally think the death penalty needs to come back on the statute books in the UK.

Nor do I necessarily see prison as being a means to rehabilitate, I am quite happy just to have some low life's off the streets, and accept they are beyond redemption. I firmly believe humans can be genetically violent and dangerous, as can animals from a bad gene pool.

 

[Sliver]

I'm an atheist, so I believe when you die it's just like going to sleep, therefore I don't support the death penalty. The guilty should be made to live in suffering for as long as possible. There is no rehabilitation for murderers.

I share your sentiments as a fellow atheist myself. However, playing devils advocate, I could say, what is the cost to the society in keeping a nutjob killer incarcerated for the rest of his natural life? It's cheaper and simpler and safer just to eliminate the scum bag.

That's not my view in most cases, but in some it is.

 

[DrToffnar]

Not in every case though. Several cases which are black and white have been mentioned in this thread and there are probably thousands every year where you could say without doubt that 'X' happened and 'Y' is the perpetrator. So it's as simple as you say. Some people do not deserve the right to exist amongst the rest of us, that is just a fact. Just like when the police shoot a mad dog for killing a baby human...............

Doesn't make any difference to me whether it's an open and shut case in which the suspect was caught red handed. I do not believe the state should sink to the very levels of indecency it condemns to provide 'justice'.

Do I think the current system is perfect? Absolutely not. Is the death penalty a better solution? Never. We are an advanced people, that method of dealing with something is nothing but primitive.

 

[eldergeek]

I'm an atheist, so I believe when you die it's just like going to sleep, therefore I don't support the death penalty. The guilty should be made to live in suffering for as long as possible. There is no rehabilitation for murderers.

Congratulations for making the most irrelevant argument against the death penalty that I've ever seen.

OK How about this - we take prisoners, and we build a colony somewhere secluded with no natural resources of their own; the rely entirely on supply drops. Now. We split them into...Say...12 districts to stop them communicating, but once a year we take two from each district to fight for benefits such as extra medicine, food etc.

We could call it something like speedball.

 

[swain90]

I vote yes, but certainly for specific crimes only e.g.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Baby_P

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors_murders

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

How much money has been spent on imprisoning the people above?

I can't see how or why it'd be beneficial to have these people alive?

 

[SPG]

No, its too easy.

I would prefer specific IRANIAN white room treatment for all serious offenders.
Chain gangs for petty scum (with option of volunteer for sentence reduction, one time only, no reduction for repeat offending scum)

Or i would vote yes for a running man style event.

 

[eldergeek]

No, its too easy.

I would prefer specific IRANIAN white room treatment for all serious offenders.
Chain gangs for petty scum (with option of volunteer for sentence reduction, one time only, no reduction for repeat offending scum)

Or i would vote yes for a running man style event.

So that's a second for speedball.