German Doner Kebab

[Terminal_Boy]

What’s German about them? The only reason they have kebabs in the first place is because they have a large Turkish immigrant population that brought their cuisine with them.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

What’s German about them? The only reason they have kebabs in the first place is because they have a large Turkish immigrant population that brought their cuisine with them.

German doner is exactly that doner made by turkish immigrants for the german market that demanded a higher quality product than that of the british that will literally eat any old crap.

The bread they use isn't a pitta which is greek afaik, it's pretty obvious from a mile away what the differences are. German doner is what they were supposed to be.

 

[BaZ87]

German doner is what they were supposed to be.

No it's not, at least the German Doner in question is absolutely nothing like what you'll get in Turkey The only German thing about their kebabs is the sauces and bread but you won't find these sauces in Turkey, just like you won't find your typical chilli or garlic sauces offered here.

I suspect it's a bit presumptuous to say the quality of kebabs is better in Germany than here but if it is, I'd suggest the reason why is because they have a larger Turkish population who wouldn't tolerate poorer imitations and know how to make the proper stuff. In the same way in North London the quality of kebabs is much higher than anywhere else, because there is a big Turkish population there.

 

[ttaskmaster]

What’s German about them? The only reason they have kebabs in the first place is because they have a large Turkish immigrant population that brought their cuisine with them.

What is South African about Nandos?
AFAIK, despite being founded in Jo'burg, they use a Portuguese recipe and sauce, hence using the Barcelos Rooster as their logo.

No it's not, at least the German Doner in question is absolutely nothing like what you'll get in Turkey

Hence calling it German Doner, instead of Turkish Doner, no?
Just like most American-Italian food is nothing like what you'll get in Italy, but mainly because it's not made in Italy for the Italian market...

I suspect it's a bit presumptuous to say the quality of kebabs is better in Germany than here but if it is, I'd suggest the reason why is because they have a larger Turkish population who wouldn't tolerate poorer imitations and know how to make the proper stuff.

I thought most places in Europe had a higher quality of food than the UK!
Nothing to do with immigrants or anything, we're just ****.

 

[BaZ87]

Hence calling it German Doner, instead of Turkish Doner, no?
Just like most American-Italian food is nothing like what you'll get in Italy, but mainly because it's not made in Italy for the Italian market...

I'm not sure putting a different sauce on the kebab makes a fundamental difference, I've never heard somebody refer to a kebab over here as an English Doner because they've put garlic sauce on it anyway. Putting a different sauce on the meat doesn't excuse the poor quality of the actual kebab either. I've no doubt there are some very good 'German Doners' in Germany, using the same sauces but the actual kebab will be far better quality than GDK.

I thought most places in Europe had a higher quality of food than the UK!
Nothing to do with immigrants or anything, we're just ****.

I'm not sure I agree. As I've said a number of times in this thread, the quality of kebabs in North London is far better than your typical kebab house and that's because you have a far bigger Turkish population there. Similarly you're likely to get better curries in somewhere like Bradford than your average UK town. My dad's friend ran a number of kebab houses in Kent and had one old Turkish guy that prepared all their own kebabs. Once he retired he couldn't find somebody to replace him and had no choice but to buy the ready made Elephant legs like 99% of kebab houses sell.

Like most foreign cuisines, they're introduced by immigrants but slowly the product is watered down as they're spread around the country, made by people that don't understand the cuisine and price pressure then reduces the quality. You'll still find decent places here and there but most won't be a patch on what was first introduced.

 

[ttaskmaster]

I've no doubt there are some very good 'German Doners' in Germany, using the same sauces but the actual kebab will be far better quality than GDK.

Well, at work we have some German people from Germany, and they seem to be of the impression that Reading's GDK, along with the Bierhaus, is pretty darn good... Obviously not quite as good as in Germany, but certainly very close.
I'm sure they don't know what they're talking about, though.

Like most foreign cuisines, they're introduced by immigrants but slowly the product is watered down as they're spread around the country, made by people that don't understand the cuisine and price pressure then reduces the quality. You'll still find decent places here and there but most won't be a patch on what was first introduced.

So you disagree with my assertion of low quality, by citing exactly how and why we do have such low quality.....??!!

 

[BaZ87]

Well, at work we have some German people from Germany, and they seem to be of the impression that Reading's GDK, along with the Bierhaus, is pretty darn good... Obviously not quite as good as in Germany, but certainly very close.
I'm sure they don't know what they're talking about, though.

I'm sure if you took a Brit to a a terrible kebab house in France they'll tell you it's nearly as good as what they get back here too. The meat at GDK (like most kebab houses) is absolutely nothing like how a Doner should be and nothing like what would have been first introduced in Germany. So yes, if your friends think it's pretty good, then like a number of people in here, they too are basing it on poor imitations.

So you disagree with my assertion of low quality, by citing exactly how and why we do have such low quality.....??!!

You claimed it had nothing to do with immigrants and I've just explained why I think it does Have you just accepted that it is a result of fewer immigrants and not that we just have **** food?

My comment wasn't specific to the UK either, it will be the same everywhere, including Germany. As there are more Turks in Germany you're more likely to get more authentic/better quality kebabs than here but no doubt there's plenty of poor imitations too as they've spread across the country.

edit: your whole argument is a bit mad tbh. You should start a brand called GB Curry and export it around the world. Your curries only need to be nearly as good as poor imitations sold in the UK and when somebody tells you it's an average curry, tell them it's a british curry and it's a good one

 

[ttaskmaster]

I'm sure if you took a Brit to a a terrible kebab house in France they'll tell you it's nearly as good as what they get back here too. The meat at GDK (like most kebab houses) is absolutely nothing like how a Doner should be and nothing like what would have been first introduced in Germany. So yes, if your friends think it's pretty good, then like a number of people in here, they too are basing it on poor imitations.

And how should a Doner be, exactly?
Why is the German version not a proper Doner?
Who gets to decide what is a proper Doner, given that it exists in several different cultures, each of which will claim theirs was first and thus the definitive?
Why can a nation not have their own perfectly legitimate variant?
Why is this SUCH a big personal issue for you, and do you have the same problems with what most people consider to be 'pizza'?

You claimed it had nothing to do with immigrants and I've just explained why I think it does Have you just accepted that it is a result of fewer immigrants and not that we just have **** food?

I cannot accept that, as most UK kebab places are run by (effectively) immigrants, yet they still sell **** kebabs. It doesn't matter how many live here, they still accept that the UK has **** quality food and just work with it. Yes, a few places in wonderful London do it to a higher standard, but the majority are **** and it's nothing to do with fussy foreigners stubbornly refusing to accept poor quality food. It's the same for most Oriental food, cooked by Oriental people in Oriental restaurants... still **** compared to their native versions, but tailored to cater for UK tastes and quality of ingredients.
Everywhere the immigrants are the ones making this stuff, mainly because they do understand the food, yet it's still ****..... Your argument does not hold up.

My comment wasn't specific to the UK either, it will be the same everywhere, including Germany. As there are more Turks in Germany you're more likely to get more authentic/better quality kebabs than here but no doubt there's plenty of poor imitations too as they've spread across the country.

OK, so what's the difference between a "poor imitation" and simply doing something your own way to your own tastes?
Garlic bread, for example, is extremely popular and very well established yet nothing like the actual garlic bread from Italy.... Veggie burgers are not burgers in the slightest, chicken fajitas shouldn't exist as they're supposed to be beef, the list goes on.

 

[Reuben klang]

Okay, I tried one of these last night. I thought it was good and a good ratio but the hard bread waffle thing wasn’t that great.

I don’t think I’d eat one again and I had the remorse later on from eating junk food.

I don’t know how people eat these things sober

 

[tom_e]

I don’t know how people eat these things sober

Put it in their mouth, chew and swallow.

When drunk drop some down your top, get some in your mouth then chew and swallow.

 

[Reuben klang]

I now know how but what about why?

 

[BaZ87]

Who gets to decide what is a proper Doner,

To be completely honest, I think I should

Now I love a kebab more than most but even for me, this is getting a bit too deep and you seem to be getting a bit upset. I've not suggested the 'German version' isn't a proper kebab, I've said the brand GDK don't sell proper kebabs. I'm yet to find an authentic kebab house (or any other middle eastern alternative) sell processed kebabs, as GDK do. 30 seconds on google tells me that in Germany they do have many "German doners" that sell kebabs just like what you'd expect in Turkey (with the added German doner sauces of course).

Anyway, if you believe putting a different sauce on something makes it a completely different offering and excuses using heavily processed, poorer quality meat then fine, I disagree however. I've had a GDK or two and they're fine but nothing more and not a patch on what I'll get down Green Lanes and I strongly suspect, not close to the German Doner's you'll find in Berlin.

 

[DrToffnar]

I've always preferred the 'Halifax Donair' to anything we have over here tbh, though if I'm making it myself I mix in lamb and pork instead of just using Beef as is done in Canada.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Now I love a kebab more than most but even for me, this is getting a bit too deep and you seem to be getting a bit upset.

I'm not upset at all, mate. Like I said, you're the one seemingly taking it personally that a GDK is not (and never intended to be) the same as a Turkish kebab... and as for 'proper', there are many different ways of doing a doner kebab, all with as long and rich a heritage as the Turkish ones... of which there are several anyway, so again you'll have to tell us all which of those is the 'proper' one, too.

I've not suggested the 'German version' isn't a proper kebab, I've said the brand GDK don't sell proper kebabs.

Waiting to hear your definition of 'proper'. I suspect you're comparing it to Turkish restaurant kebabs, rather than Turkish street food kebabs, and yes there is a difference but both street versions are perfectly valid as kebabs.

I'm yet to find an authentic kebab house (or any other middle eastern alternative) sell processed kebabs, as GDK do.

And yet you'll find a great many authentic Turks selling processed kebabs... which is probably why the UK sees it as more of a street dish only palatable when heavily inebriated.
Not one of those will have rice with it.

30 seconds on google tells me that in Germany they do have many "German doners" that sell kebabs just like what you'd expect in Turkey (with the added German doner sauces of course).

30 seconds also tells you they sell kebabs that have more in common with gyros or shawarma, too, but that doesn't mean much as they're basically all the same.
It will also tell you that (apparently) there are now more kebab shops in Germany than in Turkey...but that again doesn't mean much.
However, 45 seconds on Google then tells you that "proper" kebabs in Turkey are ******* expensive, so unless you have the cash what you actually get is cheap and very fatty meat... and that being the opinion of various Turkish people from Turkey online, although they're seemingly split over whether the better kebab is found in Bursa or Istanbul.

Anyway, if you believe putting a different sauce on something makes it a completely different offering and excuses using heavily processed, poorer quality meat then fine, I disagree however.

But that is the majority of English kebabs, as made by genuine authentic Turkish people in the UK, anyway, which would seem to excuse a lot, given how they're the ones that understand their own cuisine, no?

I've had a GDK or two and they're fine but nothing more and not a patch on what I'll get down Green Lanes and I strongly suspect, not close to the German Doner's you'll find in Berlin.

Well, Simone right next to me here is actually from Berlin and she simply says you're wrong.
Also, Green Lanes places cater more toward the restuarant style of kebab... but if you really want to be a food snob about it, the absolute best kebabs in the UK are usually found in an Iranian restaurant!!

 

[Josh]

Kebab gatekeeping.

Never change OcUK, never change.

 

[BaZ87]

I'm not upset at all, mate.

Your posts suggest otherwise and are taking things slightly too seriously. I hope you and Simone enjoy your processed german doners.

I will just add, as I don't want you to miss out, takeaway doner's in Turkey and North London are not expensive. In Turkey they're extremely cheap by our standards and I had one in Green Lanes including a drink for £7 the other week - there wasn't any mince in sight too!

Slightly off topic, I was in Istanbul for the 2005 Champions League Final and there was 1 street food stall selling doner and two Italians were asking him what the meat was but he couldn't understand them so my dad (he's Turkish Cypriot) translated for them and his reply was concerning - "whatever my boss found this morning", the key word being found. Needless to say I didn't try that place but the one in Taksim square that I did was out of this world.

 

[rapid64k]

Having tried quite a few in the Persian restaurants frequented by my Iranian and Turkish friends and their ethnic communities in London, I would say GDK is somewhere in the middle.
However, it's also important to note that it's a German doner kebab - It's not trying to be the same as those from other cultures, so it's not as useful a comparison. Might as well judge KFC by the periperi standards of Nandos.

And this is my point GDK is not trying to be like your local Kebab haunt they are doing their own thing. I have worked over in Germany a few times and ordered some kebab meat i.e. a selection and they lay a trough in front of you stacked with meat...Germans love their meat .

GDK is their own take on a Kabab without trying to be like a Kebab I mean even the bread is different. I like it and to be honest I cannot remember the last time that I actually brought a Kebab.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Your posts suggest otherwise and are taking things slightly too seriously. I hope you and Simone enjoy your processed german doners.

I'm sure we will.
But no, I'm not taking this seriously, as I'm not harping on about "proper" Turkish Doners and how German Doners are supposedly inferior because they're not exactly like what you get in Turkey...

I will just add, as I don't want you to miss out, takeaway doner's in Turkey and North London are not expensive. In Turkey they're extremely cheap by our standards and I had one in Green Lanes including a drink for £7 the other week - there wasn't any mince in sight too!

They weren't judging their cuisine by our standards, though, which is the mistake you've made throughout this thread.
But you go tell a load of Turkish people in Turkey that their complaints about price are unwarranted because you, as a rich tourist, can afford it... Let me know how it turns out for you.

Slightly off topic, I was in Istanbul for the 2005 Champions League Final and there was 1 street food stall selling doner and two Italians were asking him what the meat was but he couldn't understand them so my dad (he's Turkish Cypriot) translated for them and his reply was concerning - "whatever my boss found this morning", the key word being found. Needless to say I didn't try that place but the one in Taksim square that I did was out of this world.

If, as you say, GDK is nothing like what you get in Turkey, that only sounds like a good thing!!
Assuming he wasn't simply joking - Tell me more about how Turks won't accept poor quality.....

 

[BaZ87]

Nope, definitely not taking it seriously

You know German Doner isn't a thing btw, it's just a brand name. Anyway, I'll leave it there before you get even more wound up.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Nope, definitely not taking it seriously

Seriously and personally, based on your replies.

You know German Doner isn't a thing btw, it's just a brand name. Anyway, I'll leave it there before you get even more wound up.

Pot, Kettle.
And yes, I know it's their brand name, but that seems another point you're taking to heart...