Hillsborough inquest verdict.

[Danthus]

But so many of them did alter statements and conceal evidence. Any institution (public or private) that goes to such lengths to shift blame and hide the truth is rotten to the core. Where are the policemen who stood up and told the truth because it was the right thing to do? Who put integrity ahead of toeing the party line?

I agree the statement were altered but has it been established who changed them?

As I have said previously, many of the families are on record thanking some of the officers for the help they offered.

That should not be lost is the rightful criticism of the SYP as a body.

 

[holymonk]

You realise a jury isnt some collection of super beings its just normal people right?

Were all the answers unanimus?

Live in Rhyl by any chance?

 

[FoxEye]

Unbelievable, still victim shaming after all the evidence provided over those 25 years... and then you have the cheek to think the police shouldn't be found guilty for their actions.

Victim shaming, good one

Yeah to start bandying around phrases such as "victim shaming" is ridiculous.

Many of us don't know the back-story, and I've been asking the same question (to myself) as Scam did.

 

[The Geezer]

You realise a jury isnt some collection of super beings its just normal people right?

Were all the answers unanimus?

So our justice system is setup wrong because they gave an answer you didn't like ?

 

[Sega Mega Dave]

Many 100's of fans pushing through the barriers without tickets. Something Liverpool were well known for doing back in the day especially around Europe. They liked a Stanley Blade then too.

Clearly on this occasion though none of the above occured and Liverpool fans were on their best behaviour as their reputation proved.

Police fault 100%.

Hopefully at least we may hear the end of it. Sadly other disasters in football get brushed under the carpet.

 

[Caged]

If you cannot separate the incident itself with the handling of the enquiry afterwards then maybe you shouldn't be posting in this thread.

 

[Sega Mega Dave]

For the record i think both parties had a part to play in it. Poor policing and not having the situation under control and Liverpool fans forcing their way in without tickets.

That said RIP to the innocents who lost their life, you don't go a match to not come back.

 

[Orionaut]

So our justice system is setup wrong because they gave an answer you didn't like ?

If Juries were infallible, we wouldn't need appeal courts!

 

[inogen]

FFS. There was a judicial enquiry, an independent panel report and two coroners inquests into the disaster. Each one of them has stated that neither crowd behaviour nor ticketlessness were contributory factors.

But then people know better don't they? After all, it said it in "the papers".

 

[wesimmo]

But it's these strawman arguments that aren't helping. Where on this thread has anyone solely blamed the fans? Where has anyone written a post in the style of that famous Kelvin McKenzie piece? No where I can see.

When you keep dragging this back to a binary argument that's basically "unless you put 100% of the blame onto the police then you are 100% blaming the fans" we can't get anywhere.

This isn't black and white and the way I see what we have now being discussed is whether the police/authorities were 100% to blame or 99% to blame with anyone taking the latter position being made out to be a heartless scum bag who has some kind of contempt for the grieving relatives.

Absolutely.

There is no denying the police screwed up and the lying after the event to cover that up was disgraceful.

And there should have been better plans in place given the history of the hooligans that were part and parcel of football back then, and specifically Liverpool fans' history.

I think what galls many people is the blanket "we were wronged" sentiment, if the campaign had been more accepting of the fact that not everyone there that day was a saint, that there were some idiots that contributed to the police making those screw ups, then today's decision wouldn't have been questioned by many people.

But I don't believe there's not more than a few people who were there as fans who, if they are emotionally intelligent enough and honest, don't look back on that day with deep, deep regret about their part in it.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

You see this drivel come up once in a while, caused by ignorance and best completely ignored.

This is one of the cheapest tactics in the book.

"Hurdur, he's ignorant/stupid/whatever, just ignored him".

Could it not be that I have actually examined the available information and reached a different conclusion?

 

[danielanthony]

I wonder how many police officers are going to be taken to court in order to now satisfy the need for justice. I mean, the actions of one incompetent senior police officer has tarnished the reputation of the entire force.

I wonder why anyone would bother to become a police officer nowadays, daily abuse from the general public and the daily opportunity to be charged with something in a situation none of those judging you have experienced. No thanks.

 

[inogen]

But I don't believe there's not more than a few people who were there as fans who, if they are emotionally intelligent enough and honest, don't look back on that day with deep, deep regret about their part in it.

Seriously? You think "more than a few" survivors (or any for that matter) should feel guilty?

 

[inogen]

Could it not be that I have actually examined the available information and reached a different conclusion?

Evidently not.

 

[Trucamo]

But then people know better don't they? After all, it said it in "the papers".

This is the first day I've properly read up about Hillsborough, before learning of the smear campaign I watched the BBC footage of the day and I saw thuggish behaviour: climbing over walls, pushing and shoving at police, their horses and other fans. If it weren't for this sort of attitude and behaviour there would have been no need for the fans to be penned in in the first place.

The fans were not the direct cause of this disaster but the behaviour of football fans around this time led to measures which ultimately seem to have caused it.

 

[Tefal]

So our justice system is setup wrong because they gave an answer you didn't like ?

did i say that?

just that "the jury said so!!" doesn't make it fact or no longer open for debate.


just look at say the Birmingham 6 or any number of other quashed convictions

 

[HankScorpio]

 

[The Geezer]

did i say that?

just that "the jury said so!!" doesn't make it fact or no longer open for debate.


just look at say the Birmingham 6 or any number of other quashed convictions

Excellent example - thank you.

The Special Branch fitted up the Birmingham 6 much like Duckinface did to the Liverpool Fans.

The police commander and his decision making followed by subsequent cover up attempts has been found wanting now twice

 

[inogen]

The fans were not the direct cause of this disaster but the behaviour of football fans around this time led to measures which ultimately seem to have caused it.

Measures which for tens of thousands of other games, including exactly the same match, between the same sides one year before, didn't kill 96 people.

This is a good expose of the mistakes the police made in the build up to the game.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...lsborough-inquiry-anatomy-of-a-disaster-video

The mistakes they made are particular. Not systemic.

It's ridiculous that these things have to be said. This has been in the public domain for 20 odd years, but people have ignored it and carried on regardless, smearing the same old **** about.

 

[Resident]

For the record i think both parties had a part to play in it. Poor policing and not having the situation under control and Liverpool fans forcing their way in without tickets.

That said RIP to the innocents who lost their life, you don't go a match to not come back.

This all day.

I AM a Sheffielder and I will NOT stand by whilst my city is tarnished by this sham of a verdict.

YES - I admit the police got it wrong on the day. Decisions were made that ultimately proved tragic.

YES - I fully acknowledge that the police compounded that decision by trying to lie their way out of it.

Liverpool fans had nothing to do with it - Pull the other one. Anyone who believes that the fans did not play a part in causing the disaster (and by fans I am not blaming the 96 victims) needs to serious check their grip on reality.

1. Fans (with tickets) arrived late & many were intoxicated

2. The (incorrect) decision to open the gates to herd them in was made

3. Fans with or without tickets surged into the grounds. Through the gates AND jumping turnstiles (or are we not accepting the video evidence of this?)

4. Too many people, too little space, the inevitable happened.

BLAME ON BOTH SIDES!