How will Brexit affect you and your family personally?

Caporegime
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Our passports (me, wife, two kids) will be downgraded to plain Jane British passports. No more EU status. :(

My mother owns a couple of properties in the UK that she rents out. She's waiting to see how the real estate market will be affected.
 
Commissario
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Panting like a fiend
Perhaps the astoundingly rich companies that will end up benefiting from said research could fund it themselves?

If the company thinks it's likely they will probably do so.

However they might then stop if it doesn't bring results quickly enough, and they won't even start funding it if they don't think there is a profit (remember companies are profit driven) so you won't even know of the chance without someone funding it initially.

R&D has been gutted in a lot of companies that used to do it in a big way because it takes a long time to show any return on the investment and unfortunately far too many companies are now concentrating on short term returns because that's what keeps the shareholders happy tomorrow and lets the execs get their big bonuses.

This is why you have government funding of speculative research, because you never know what is going to prove important, and some stuff that you know could be immensely profitable if it works out may take decades to do, but whilst they're working on it they could end up making huge developments in other areas because they need new tools/equipment.

It's like Space flight, the original space race if my memory serves, as a side effect of the need to improve the materials they were building the rockets out of they developed new non destructive ways of testing welds and new/improved ways to do certain types of welding cheaply and consistently ( improved methods for welding aluminium).
IIRC the method they ended up using had been known about for 20 years but no one had invested the money to get it to the point where it was useful on a large scale, NASA ended up basically creating the tools and technology to make it useful on a large scale (they needed it for building rocket fuel tanks), and then made it available to the commercial sector.
I think the same technology ended up in use in car production when they moved from steel to aluminium parts.
 

RSR

RSR

Soldato
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I still can't see the prices dropping that much, we still don't have enough housing.

That and cheap borrowing is only fuelling demand, so people stretch themselves even further. However, the general trend really is only going up but at points there will be drops.
 
Caporegime
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I still can't see the prices dropping that much, we still don't have enough housing.

The are forecasting big drops in London, esp the high end. So if you are after an nice £2m flat you might be able to get £100k off or so,

Rest of the country isnt forecast to be affected that much, maybe a small dip for a few months then back to normal thereafter.
 
Soldato
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I think certain areas/markets might see small drops or stagnation but where the cost is high its because demand is high - that's not going to change much.

If the cost of borrowing goes up then things become even more unaffordable. I've heard a few people saying they wanted to Leave because they wanted to buy a house...
 
Soldato
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As a scientist working in a government research facility, the whole concept of the UK leaving the EU has a number of direct effects on me, the most obvious is that science has always worked better when people with the best scientific record are allowed to work together and not just because somebody has a PhD and comes from the UK. At the moment research councils (as well as universities) have worked to this and the freedom to work across the EU has been vastly beneficial to this process. In the future when I'm looking to hire a new researcher into the group any applicant from outside of the UK may have to go through the same considerations as anybody from the rest of the world, what that effectively does is make a larger portion of the CVs being considered less of a sure thing. It'll be interesting to see if the current UK native research applicant number goes up as at the moment very few go into pure research after doing a PhD, they tend to go to industry instead as it pays FAR better, while non-UK native students are the ones who go down the thankless academic route as it tends to hold more personal credence for them.

We already have real problems attracting the brightest and best to the UK when compared to Germany or the USA, this is only going to make it even harder as many may consider not even applying due to the extra barriers in place.

Of course the funding point has been mentioned already, but let me put it this way, EU projects that the UK may have previously been able to get involved in and been leaders in are likely to become a no go. This may not be true of other European collaborations outside of the EU (i.e. the space program) but honestly, nobody can tell, so much of this kind of thing relies on good personal relationships as well as official ones...

Ultimately what I expect to happen is there will be a huge deficit in funding opportunities for UK science both at the SME level (i.e. small-ish businesses that relies on or contribute to UK research) and at the more obvious university and research council level. UK government will probably fill a bit of this hole, but ultimately the money is already massively stretched and frankly even if they ploughed the £350m in that Boris promised to the NHS, it wouldn't fill the gap. So researchers will look elsewhere for funding, they will be ineligible for EU funding of course and I suspect last on the list for funding within Europe not associated with the EU as other countries will simply be easier to work with logistically.

The most likely place for external funding at the moment is China, the USA isn't really open to funding outside of its borders other than industrial collaborations, so really investment into pure academic research has to come from China and to a smaller extent other rich nations (i.e. see proposed take over of ARM). I expect India to begin to make a bigger impact as there are huge cachets of wealth in Indian industry and of course at the higher levels of government.

To put it into easy terms, I expect:

*Faces around my offices to slowly start to change, the number of UK nationals will remain approx the same or reduce slightly due to less PhD opportunities leading to less researchers
* The number of faces from neighbouring countries to reduce (i.e. Italy/France etc.) as these researchers tend to do a PhD in a UK university and then carry on as a UK based researcher afterwards, these opportunities will decrease plus the ease of doing it will decrease as well, leading to a decreased number.
* The number of faces from China to increase (it is already fairly high across the UK research councils so places not taken by EU nationals will become more open to Chinese nationals)
* More UK research to be funded by Chinese industry (already had two state visits in the past two weeks simply scoping out our capability)
* Less UK research to be funded by EU based industry, except in cases where the industry maintains a UK based presence. A good example would be EDF energy who currently fund huge swathes of UK research, if they start to slowly decrease their UK base then one can only assume funding will follow.
* Smaller universities to start to shrink and close as they really do rely on oversees student fees to survive, less oversees students means they will only target the "best" universities.

If I'm being honest I literally can't see a benefit to withdrawing from the EU for UK science. I'm sure there may be benefits elsewhere but as a UK scientist (and unfortunately it is quite a thankless career so those that do it tend to do it for the love of it) all I can see is reduced funding opportunities and an increased need to become reliant on foreign investment with far more strings attached than EU funding ever had.

From a science point of view EU membership has always been a bargain for the UK economy, it's a real shame we weren't able to put this case across to the public during the referendum period, but government law means UK research councils have to remain silent for a month before and after any democratic process, so all we could do was literally sit back and cringe :(
 
Soldato
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From a science point of view EU membership has always been a bargain for the UK economy, it's a real shame we weren't able to put this case across to the public during the referendum period, but government law means UK research councils have to remain silent for a month before and after any democratic process, so all we could do was literally sit back and cringe :(

Thanks for posting such a detailed insight into all this.

It's a real shame that a whole lot of positive stuff about the EU never got the exposure it deserved during the referendum campaign. The focus was always going to be on the more populist issues, but the government did very little to ameliorate this and shine a more positive light on the debate (in fact the opposite with all the threats and scaremongering).

You'll see it said a lot that the referendum was a victory for democracy, but sadly it was more a victory for rabble rousing. There was very little informed debate and a whole lot of disinformation and threats knocking about. I truly wish more voices from the scientific community could have been heard, along with many other spheres, to give a more balanced view of what EU membership was about, rather than just immigration, sovereignty and financial contributions.

Alas.
 
Caporegime
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Co Durham
Well, starting to see the affects in the construction industry now.

Work has really slackened off and most people finished at 3pm today. Normally summer months are our busiest time and where we make the money to see us through winter.

Our biggest house builder customer has not started a new house in July across the whole of the northeast. Bear in mind they were starting 20 per week prior to brexit, that's a massive on hold/pause.

If things don't start moving soon again, redundancies will be on the cards in a lot of construction companies.
 
Soldato
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Best we can hope for is extra private investment but then the question remains, wouldn't they be doing that anyway? Is there any red tape preventing it? (Or make it less common)

You'd be surprised to find out that privately funded research, depending on the outputs, may rate poorly in the standard Research Excellence Framework and thus may be weirdly penalised. In fact, the whole targeting and organisational superstructure is borked and needs reviewing; but guess how many people with a science degree to rub between them exist in parliament? For effects of this, Google 'publish and perish'. Also look at what they are planning with increased fees and the Teaching Excellence Framework. For research institutions it's pure managerial waste. It's interesting to see Einstein mentioned above, as today he'd likely get cut from active staff in the UK or wouldn't get into research in the first place.

But what's done is done. I hope we opt-in to the scientific programmes in whatever deal we get. But until we do, and the situation is certain, collaboration won't be as straightforward to put it lightly. Oxbridge will soldier on, the rest will find it tougher.
 
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