Skyrim - my story of woe :p

Soldato
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I jumped on last night for 30 mins, spawned into Riften as my current (started another character recently) toon is level 21 and almost at the end of the thieves guild quests... "Sod this, I want everything everyone has". Then went on a huge spree of pick pocketing, lock picking, stealing and killing innocents in their homes.

Then quit, without saving. It was glorious...

OpFcp.jpg
 
Soldato
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So far so good!

The real problem here is the dungeon is too high level for your character and you appear to have gone in there without any real reason (no quest points here, yet)!

I've made it through Yngvild to the Throne Room (new level) but the fight there is tougher. The previous enemies were taken down with judicious use of sneaking/running away and weren't too tough. I did resort to archery once (which took ages!) to clear a draugr out who couldn't get to me.

The real secret here though? If you see 'Resist' come up - run away and come back when you are suitably equipped! :p

Now to finish the throne room...
 
Soldato
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I merely bimbled around with a basic sword, not knowing what to do or where to go... Ended up at the Magic College, learned a couple of spells, went out and became steadily awesome through doing little side quests and encountering random bandits.

Flamethrower on one hand, set fire to everyone, hit them with the sword from the other hand for increased damage, job done - Rinse, repeat, nick their stuff and level up!
Eventually I learned more damage spells and got better kit. I never bought/forged/smithed anything, made potions or enchanted anything. All my stuff was nicked off of kills or looted.

By the time I got back to the actual plot Dragons were mostly just easy-to-kill disractions, only considered difficult because they wouldn't land... and then I got the Shout that made them land!
The Assassin's Guild woman just slumped to the floor. Ain't a thing in the land I can't just kill with a kick in the teeth, it seems... although it did take 270 hours of play to get that far!
 
Caporegime
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The previous enemies were taken down with judicious use of sneaking/running away and weren't too tough.

You'll have to explain that one to me. I didn't know sneaking and running away was an effective way to kill your enemies ;) How does it work?

The real problem here is the dungeon is too high level for your character and you appear to have gone in there without any real reason (no quest points here, yet)!

There is no indication of a dungeons level/difficulty before entering it. None at all.

Do you only go to places if a quest asks you to? I hadn't considered that just entering places as I found them was a bad idea.
 
Soldato
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Just do the Smith exploit thing, I do :D

Just smith Iron Daggers over and over, which is Leather strips and Iron bars.

Go to white run, you got the woman and the guy inside the smithing area who sell iron ore/bars leather/leather strips, also that guy up by the companions place with the big forge

create daggers, sell them, think you skip time by three days I think and repeat.

I've levelled up a lot :D

You'll have to explain that one to me. I didn't know sneaking and running away was an effective way to kill your enemies ;) How does it work?


Toss a fireball to aggro whichever enemy I came across (Draugr/Ghost) and try to separate them. Repeat until they split up and take them on one by one. Ghosts need 3 fireballs, draugr needed way more. Lots of running in circles humming the Benny Hill music whilst waiting for magicka to recharge :p

Got there in the end though :)


There is no indication of a dungeons level/difficulty before entering it. None at all.

Do you only go to places if a quest asks you to? I hadn't considered that just entering places as I found them was a bad idea.

That's one of my biggest problems with both this and the Fallout games. Random difficulty spikes and leveling being very inconsistent - hard to know where it's safe to tread and what enemies levels are.

I think I've been spoiled by Borderlands - hovering over an enemy gives you a name (chump/badass/super badass etc), health/shield bar, level and a skull if they significantly outrank you!

As for where to go I tend to follow quests because it seems to give out quest roughly based on player level. I think I also read somewhere that the in game elevation of a dungeon/crypt can give hints to it's difficulty too....
 
Caporegime
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Just as an experiment, I went and bought Turn Lesser Undead to see if it would help with the ghosts. I also discovered a couple of "Bane of the Undead" scrolls on me.

So with a little bit of optimism, as much as I could muster, I went back.

Lo and behold, ghosts aren't undead. They can't be turned and aren't affected by the scrolls. Nice one Bethesda. A ghost isn't undead. Wooooooooo!

I just don't get the logic here. The are capable of wield physical weapons and hurting you badly, they have massive physical resistance (that weapon in my inventory does nothing to them), and they can't be turned or hit with any anti-undead spells.

I mean, wtf is this.

Oh and btw, I'm not saying you're fibbing, but I just went back to that save, and ghosts don't die in three fireballs. More like six. Which for me was a problem when I could only cast it five times and three attack you at once.
 
Soldato
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Splitting them up is the key. Use spells to create a distraction to make them investigate :)

If you stick at it and buy Frenzy from Sybille Stentor (Blue Palace, Solitude) and take quiet casting as your next perk you will be pretty powerful if you avoid quests involving undead/dwemer ruins :)

Oh and you must, MUST then throw points into sneak to allow you to hide better and ultimately gain 30x backstab bonus!

Frenzy the enemies, let them fight it out, calm the winner, sneak behind them, stab with a dagger :)

As for the ghosts massive physical resistance the problem you have there is you are a fairly powerful illusion/destruction mage (60's for Illusion iirc) at level 22 so you are getting similar level enemies but your sword skills are in a word, crap. Find a trainer and get them boosted or of course you could join the Dark Brotherhood and get some nice easy assassination targets ;)
 
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Caporegime
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OK so I went back to the save and each ghost at the entrance needs 7 (!) fireballs to kill. I have mana to cast 5 before needing to drink a potion. The dragur there also need 7 fireballs to kill. And if I get below 50% health (easy when you're being gangbanged), they can do a 1-hit-kill power attack.

All I'm saying is, magic builds basically suck balls. Sure, you can kite stuff around the dungeons, drink potions every 5 seconds, and run away a lot.

But a melee build would stroll around in plate armour and faceroll this stuff. Magic, on the other hand...

1. Level caps. Perks required to continue using your spells, not to make them more powerful. Contrast that with melee/archery. They can keep upgrading their weapons (does not require perks), and get more and more power from every perk they buy.

By far the majority of mage perks simply reduce the mana cost. You are also forced to buy the same perk (again) for each new spell level. Once you get Expert spells, the perks you bought to reduce mana cost of Novice and Apprentice spells are mostly now wasted, because you won't be casting them again. Does not seem fair.

The next set of "perks" for magic users are the ones that the game forces you to buy to continue using your spells as you level up. Thanks to horribly low level caps on Illusion and Restoration spells (turn undead is capped at 26, btw, and you can't increase it further. The master spell (which you can cast once with a full mana pool), is capped at 37 (30 if you don't buy the +25% perk). Yet undead scale to 50 and make up about 1/2 of the game enemies... Bethesda logic right there!

Why do melee/archers not have to buy perks as they level up, just to stop enemies being immune to their weapons? Again, Beth hates mages.

2. Spells that don't scale like melee/archery scales. Your fireball spell will never do more base damage than the day you learned it. Yes there are two perks to give it a +50% damage boost in total. But melee and archers get to boost their damage output by +100% at the very least. In fact, much, much more than that.

3. Mana. Melee do more damage and can still swing their swords with 0 stamina. Magic users can't do jack **** without mana.

4. There are no +Damage enchantments for mages. Only -mana_cost.

5. A mage will never 1 hit KO anything of an equal level. Archers and melee with smithing can/will 1 hit KO many things, even things greater than their level. They can also kill dragons in about 3-5 hits too. As demonstrated on YouTube. You'll notice that there are no mage videos showing off their amazing 1 hit KOs.

6. Of the summons, only the Deadric Lords can actually take a couple hits. If you try to "mix in" conjuration, your summons will get 1-hit KO'd. A Fire Atronach in Yngvild lasts about 2-3 hits, and costs me 1/4 of my mana bar to cast. Wooooohooo.

7. You can't "mix in" illusion at all, due to the level caps. You need 75 illusion skill and 4 perks for illusion spells to affect level 50 enemies.

8. Mages get protection spells that a) cost a lot mana - needed to do damage don't forget, b) run out after about 60-90 seconds, c) take about 2 seconds to cast, whilst you're getting hit, and d) are inferior to armour that is worn 24/7 by melee and archers. There are no "protection from arrows" type spells either. These spells really have no purpose at all. Mages that want protection are much better off spending the points in light armour instead.

In fact, the most useless skill set in the entire game is Alteration. I've yet to see anyone rate it above "utter waste of time".

So endeth another rant :p
 
Caporegime
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Oh and another completely random "eff you" from Bethesda to mages:

You can't have a damage aura and a summon at the same time.

Why? Nobody knows. It's like saying melee can't hold a sword and shield at the same time. Makes zero sense.
 
Soldato
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Just out of interest, anyone ever done a successful archery non-sneak character?

I've tried a couple of times with grand designs of being legolas, but unlike even single handed no shield with light armour i just can't get it to be strong enough to be playable.
 
Soldato
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The side answer appears to be in your playstyle and not the mages skill trees tbh. As a mage you pretty much cannot faceroll enemies, gotta play much smarter than that AND have a backup skill trained - 1h is ideal as it allows dagger sneak attacks tobecone silly strong.


As for the Legolas idea - not tried but that sounds interesting :D
 
Soldato
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Just out of interest, anyone ever done a successful archery non-sneak character?

I've tried a couple of times with grand designs of being legolas, but unlike even single handed no shield with light armour i just can't get it to be strong enough to be playable.


Not entirely, as my archery character types have usually used the sneak benefit to get that 1st juicy hit in.

What may work better is for you to start out using heavy armour, and just take the hits. Get the 20% then 40% bonus, while improving your archery. Then you can ditch the boots for light armour ones, then gauntlets as well, gradually transitioning to light armour, as well as buying some training in light armour. Lord Stone will help too, and if you don't train up too many other skills you should have a pretty devastating archer, although I usually keep an enchanted blade of some kind handy for that last ditch fight.

Just been reading about 'Perkus Maximus' and it sounds awesome, but it'll need a new character to play it with. Wish I'd discovered it before starting my current character, a Shadow Assassin. :(
 
Caporegime
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Psymonkee, I've spent a couple days now thinking about how to roll a new char (I've given up on the one in the save I sent you.)

I'm looking for synergy. I've decided to avoid Destruction magic because it's so weak. So there will be no Destruction in my build, at all. It's too crap.

I'd still like to have Illusion as my main skill.

Archery is two handed and thus you can't cast anything whilst holding a bow. So, for example, you could't kill an enemy mage with a bow as an Illusionist/Archer, because you'd be unable to use your wards and the bow at the same time.

I'm well aware of the Illusionist/Backstab build, which is totally broken. Invis, backstab, invis, backstab. I'm not going to play that, it would be boring beyond belief.

Illusionist/1H fighter is pretty much a non-starter. Without armour, going toe-to-toe with an orc fighter, or the draugr, is pretty much instant death. 1H or 2H /has/ to be paired with either light or heavy armour, and either block or restoration. Anything else is suicide. NPC mages can get away with it because they cheat (they get more health and more defence player has).

So I'm all for playing smarter. But the game, because it requires magic to be "equipped" like a weapon, offers little to no synergy with anything else. This is one of the biggest flaws with Skyrim. Oblivion didn't suffer from this. It also means that a lot of my time is spent navigating menus rather than playing the game.
 
Caporegime
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Man of Honour
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Pretty sure my build was destruction magic + 1h and fairly powerful the key I believe was getting the items/clothing that enabled decent mana capabilities - quite awhile since I played though.

EDIT: I remember pumping the restoration like crazy though to deal with the tougher stuff. I do remember a few enemy were largely immune to most of the fire based stuff though including ironically the dragons, etc. which wasn't very useful for the main storyline.

EDIT2: Now I'm installing it again :S but I don't think my old saves work with the base game and/or updated versions of some of the mods.

Managed to get my old save to load up after a few errors:

Was using a lot of stuff to max out magika - Morokei mask, savos aren amulet, archmage's robes, steel nord gauntlets, etc. and using alteration/restoration to juggle between health and magika as needed along with a health stealing weapon and destruction magic.

Having a quick whirl the difference in destruction with/without those 100%/-50% bonuses is massive.
 
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Soldato
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Psymonkee, I've spent a couple days now thinking about how to roll a new char (I've given up on the one in the save I sent you.)

I'm looking for synergy. I've decided to avoid Destruction magic because it's so weak. So there will be no Destruction in my build, at all. It's too crap.

I'd still like to have Illusion as my main skill.

Archery is two handed and thus you can't cast anything whilst holding a bow. So, for example, you could't kill an enemy mage with a bow as an Illusionist/Archer, because you'd be unable to use your wards and the bow at the same time.

I'm well aware of the Illusionist/Backstab build, which is totally broken. Invis, backstab, invis, backstab. I'm not going to play that, it would be boring beyond belief.

Illusionist/1H fighter is pretty much a non-starter. Without armour, going toe-to-toe with an orc fighter, or the draugr, is pretty much instant death. 1H or 2H /has/ to be paired with either light or heavy armour, and either block or restoration. Anything else is suicide. NPC mages can get away with it because they cheat (they get more health and more defence player has).

So I'm all for playing smarter. But the game, because it requires magic to be "equipped" like a weapon, offers little to no synergy with anything else. This is one of the biggest flaws with Skyrim. Oblivion didn't suffer from this. It also means that a lot of my time is spent navigating menus rather than playing the game.

You are using the favourites menu/quick binds, yes? I didn't for ages and this totally changed the game for me:

Set a weapon/spell as a favourite as normal in your menu.
Whilst walking around hit 'Q' to bring up the quick menu
With an item highlighted with the mouse (don't click) press a number 1 - 8 above Q - I

Then the next time you're wandering around just hit that button and BAM! Fireball! BAM! Pacify! BAM! Ultra super stabby dagger of DOOM! :D


Oh and for enemy mages just arch the idiots. Or if you must use mage skills Lightning will drain their mana....
 
Soldato
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I used destruction magic and kiting enemies for ages, then i found 1h sneak attack so imba i switched to that then magic after. Sneaking around was really fun.
 
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