So, this post office palaver then

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They are like their own CPS.

Lots of Government agencies / departments have had the ability (and need it) to prosecute themselves (with zero interaction with the CPS) for decades. It's nothing new.

It is amazing to me that the post office still as the power to prosecute in there own right.


But yes, if they are incapable (which they clearly are) or don't really need that power, it should be removed.
 
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I don’t know this guys background but if he’s just an architect involved in the project then its shocking to see him named and shamed like this. Probably a cog in the overall delivery, was he project owner, did he sign off QA and oversee UAT… probably not.
In the documentary their where a few who knew it wasn't working right but when passed on the upper management never checked up on it. I'm willing to bet he was one of them who was blowing the whistle but ignored.
No, instead he was the expert responsible for giving evidence at trial and as a result has seen innocent people go to jail.
He does not deserve any form of immunity.
 
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I worked at Fujitsu and worked at the building where the post office service desk was based. No one wanted to work on that desk, it was a complete nightmare helpdesk. I can tell you now Fujitsu itself knew the horizon system was not fit for purpose.

They had a lot of other service desks in the building, DVLA, DTI, Learning and Skills council to name a few, all these other desks where fine and worked relatively well.

Post office was based on the ground floor and you would avoid it like the plague. People with no experience whatsoever where asked to diagnose complex financial issues with a system you had never used and the training was non existent.

They tried it with me 3 times and each time I refused to work on the desk due to the horror stories of others.
 
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I've never worked for Fujitsu but I've worked for a company very similar to Fujitsu who did similar projects for the public sector. I'm surprised that Horizon-level scandals aren't more common. Perhaps there are other examples but they haven't come to light yet.

These outsourcing companies are absolute ghouls that farm work out to inexperienced graduates and overseas developers. No-one is interested in doing the work, only winning the initial bid and climbing the corporate ladder.

It's so weird that this story has been reported on for years but it's taken a TV show for it to gain any traction in the public imagination.
 
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I imagine there are a few cases of fraud every so often but surely so many must have set alarm bells ringing. Though it seems they're getting an amnesty now:


Ironically maybe there are one or two who did genuinely steal during that time period and now this software scandal means they'll get away with it, still it does seem better, given the size of this cluster **** to have gone with a general amnesty that to delay this saga any further given the lives it's destroyed.

Bit on the withheld evidence here by the black belt barrister:


I don’t know this guys background but if he’s just an architect involved in the project then its shocking to see him named and shamed like this. Probably a cog in the overall delivery, was he project owner, did he sign off QA and oversee UAT… probably not.

"just an architect" ??? If he's the guy who stood up in court and knew about these issues then it's not shocking at all tbh.
 
Soldato
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It's so weird that this story has been reported on for years but it's taken a TV show for it to gain any traction in the public imagination.

Yes, radio 4 has been covering it for at least four years and I thought it was common-ish knowledge. So it appears wrongs can only be righted with a TV series.
 
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Yikes:
Gareth Jenkins, who is understood to have been instrumental in developing the software as a senior computer engineer at Fujitsu, is under police investigation over his role in the Post Office scandal.
His testimony given in court cases that the Fujitsu IT system was working correctly was central to convictions and repeatedly used by Post Office lawyers.
Tracked down by The Telegraph to his home in Berkshire, Mr Jenkins, 69, said, when asked if he was sorry for what had happened: “I don’t want to talk. I don’t have anything to say to you.”
Mr Jenkins has twice sought a guarantee that any testimony he gives to the inquiry cannot be used against him in any possible prosecution and his testimony has also been delayed twice.
[...]
Mr Jenkins had been due to give evidence to the public inquiry twice. But in each occasion it was postponed including as recently as November 2023, when the Post Office disclosed 3,045 documents on the evening before he was due to give evidence. Sources have speculated that the release of the documents was timed to prevent Mr Jenkins giving evidence.

The Metropolitan Police confirmed last week it was investigating “matters concerning Fujitsu Horizon and the Post Office… into potential offences of perjury and perverting the course of justice”.

The Met also announced it was investigating “potential fraud offences” as a result of the wrongful prosecutions of sub-postmasters. That includes an allegation the Post Office boosted its profits by recovering money from sub-postmasters falsely dragged through the criminal or civil courts.

The Telegraph understands that Mr Jenkins, who was chief Horizon architect at Fujitsu, told investigators as early as 2012 that the IT system designed for the Post Office could be accessed remotely by Fujitsu at its headquarters in Bracknell, Berks. But it would take until 2019 for the Post Office to admit that sub-postmasters’ computer systems could be accessed remotely, blowing a hole in the key prosecution argument that the system could not be tampered with and was failsafe.

Ian Henderson, a director of Second Sight, a forensic accountancy firm that first highlighted the unsafe convictions, told the BBC on Tuesday: “We were able to identify that there were bugs and defects in the Horizon system. This was disclosed to the Post Office by Fujitsu itself.

“I visited Fujitsu in September 2012 and met with the senior technical engineer and had a very detailed meeting looking at how they operated, what the problems were. It was at that meeting that Fujitsu disclosed to me that they routinely used remote access to branch terminals for troubleshooting purposes.”

The Telegraph has been told the senior engineer who briefed the Second Sight team was Mr Jenkins.
Prosecutions were not halted until 2015.
 
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Soldato
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Yes, radio 4 has been covering it for at least four years and I thought it was common-ish knowledge. So it appears wrongs can only be righted with a TV series.

Or a massive constitutional fix where the seperation of powers between government and the courts is to be suspended and agreed by all parties but much wincing by lawyers and the judifiary.
 
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