Taiwan and China thread.

Grim5

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Raymond Lin said:
That is a terrible video....with regards to the exggerations.

I see his point but he has gone WAY WAY WAY extreme in many many points. Like way over, so much exaggerations and there is also a lot of misinformation, or if I put it bluntly, a lot of lies...or BS. I don't think they are going to the dark ages for one thing, or all of the sudden everything they have would stop working and start living in tree houses...dark ages is a bit extreme. China does import energy but this video left out the fact that the reason Japan invaded China in WW2 is it needed resources in China. China has it's own oil and gas resources, also, China can import resources.....do I need to say it??? Russia.

It will be a problem for them for sure but they are not stupid, and the video also ignores that they send a lot of their citizens abroad to study, go to any UK university and you will see lots of Chinese students and then they go back, the skills are there. The reality is that they will be cut off from the very latest cutting edge, 5nm, or 3nm chips, they can still make last gen chips and they do. They will fall behind, like stuck at the current level, for a while, but dark ages is just wrong.

The aging population problem is a different problem, nothing to do with dark ages or silicon chips. That is an economic problem.

ps, they are not really a communist society, that is just a name on paper, in practice, it's more of an autocracy. Communism doesn't mean you can't have good ideas, that isn't what communism is...if that's the case, then they couldn't invent how to type 10,000 chinese characters on a 88 keys keyboard. The US didn't invent that.

I realise this comes across like a China defence but some facts need to be said! This video is very badly researched, very shallow, too much exaggerations to the point that is is actually lies, it left out so much stuff that counters his arguments.
Click to expand...

The underlying story is that the US is now blocking China getting access to any computer components that were designed in the U.S or used U.S technology in its manufacturing or design.

In 2015 Xi Ping said by 2025 China would be self sufficient in technology well now he has a chance to show it. They don't have the machines to make advanced silicon and it will probably take them a long time to figure it out.

China has some local chip design and manufacturing now, most of it on 130nm and 90nm nodes that from 20 years ago and the companies who make these employ a lot of Americans and Biden just cut that off too, by passing a law preventing US citizens from working in Chinese tech companies or they will lose their citizenship and face jail time.

Biden is now also trying to get the Japanese and Koreans on board so they implement the same bans for their own technology
 
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Raymond Lin

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Grim5 said:
The underlying story is that the US is now blocking China getting access to any computer components that were designed in the U.S or used U.S technology in its manufacturing or design.

In 2015 Xi Ping said by 2025 China would be self sufficient in technology well now he has a chance to show it. They don't have the machines to make advanced silicon and it will probably take them a long time to figure it out
Click to expand...
Which is exactly what I said.

And it is a terrible video, because we all know China and it's espionage and whatnot will get the tech through backdoor channels, and it will force them to develop and build their own. It's what people do, the Chinese are still human beings with the same level of IQ. As I said, they will fall behind and stay at the current level for a while but the current level is not the dark ages, it's not even their level in the 90's, it's now.

It's not like the machines and tools are not currently in China, I am sure they can reverse-engineer a lot of it or work it out eventually. We are not talking about giving an iPhone to the tribes in the Amazon to ask them figure out how to make silicon chips here. We are talking about a country with their own space program.

Dark ages...please, they deserve more credit than that, from the angle of being truthful.
 
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delta0

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Raymond Lin said:
Which is exactly what I said.

And it is a terrible video, because we all know China and it's espionage and whatnot will get the tech through backdoor channels, and it will force them to develop and build their own. It's what people do, the Chinese are still human beings with the same level of IQ. As I said, they will fall behind and stay at the current level for a while but the current level is not the dark ages, it's not even their level in the 90's, it's now.

It's not like the machines are not in China, i am sure they can reverse-engineer a lot of it or work it out eventually. We are not talking about giving an iPhone to the tribes in the Amazon to ask them figure out how to make silicon chips herre.
Click to expand...
It’s not just the technology it’s the means to sell it. This is just the start of an economic war that will very quickly bankrupt China if they do invade Taiwan. China can’t afford to be embargoed by the majority of the world. Their economy is already on the edge.
 
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Grim5

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Raymond Lin said:
Which is exactly what I said.

And it is a terrible video, because we all know China and it's espionage and whatnot will get the tech through backdoor channels, and it will force them to develop and build their own. It's what people do, the Chinese are still human beings with the same level of IQ. As I said, they will fall behind and stay at the current level for a while but the current level is not the dark ages, it's not even their level in the 90's, it's now.

It's not like the machines and tools are not currently in China, I am sure they can reverse-engineer a lot of it or work it out eventually. We are not talking about giving an iPhone to the tribes in the Amazon to ask them figure out how to make silicon chips here. We are talking about a country with their own space program.

Dark ages...please, they deserve more credit than that, from the angle of being truthful.
Click to expand...

Russia also has a space program and a bunch of smart missiles systems. But you know what the Americans found when they examined all the Russian weapons in Ukraine? They all contained American computer components. You can see why the Americans see these decisions as strategic
 
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StriderX

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Raymond Lin said:
Which is exactly what I said.

And it is a terrible video, because we all know China and it's espionage and whatnot will get the tech through backdoor channels, and it will force them to develop and build their own. It's what people do, the Chinese are still human beings with the same level of IQ. As I said, they will fall behind and stay at the current level for a while but the current level is not the dark ages, it's not even their level in the 90's, it's now.

It's not like the machines are not in China, i am sure they can reverse-engineer a lot of it or work it out eventually. We are not talking about giving an iPhone to the tribes in the Amazon to ask them figure out how to make silicon chips herre.
Click to expand...
Assuming their numerous social and economic problems don't implode all at once I'm sure they could catch up... oops.
 

Raymond Lin

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delta0 said:
It’s not just the technology it’s the means to sell it. This is just the start of an economic war that will very quickly bankrupt China if they do invade Taiwan. China can’t afford to be embargoed by the majority of the world. Their economy is already on the edge.
Click to expand...
As I said, I get his point, but it is exaggerated on many many angle into BS territory.
 

Raymond Lin

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Grim5 said:
Russia also has a space program and a bunch of smart missiles systems. But you know what the Americans found when they examined all the Russian weapons in Ukraine? They all contained American computer components. You can see why the Americans see these decisions as strategic
Click to expand...

Like I said, I get his point, but is Russia in the dark ages? They still have power and electricity. They will fall behind but it is not the dark ages.

Note my point here, NOT the dark ages. They will fall behind but it is not as black and white as you think it is. The country doesn't start from zero.

North Korea has had the harshes sanctions anywhere and they are not in the dark ages. They are really behind the US if it gets into any fight and their economic output is turd but North Korea is not in the dark ages, not even after the US bombed it back to the Stone Age during the Korean War (I know how many bombs they dropped) when their population actually had to go live in caves to escape the bombings.
 
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Raymond Lin

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Let's be realistic here. Sanctions from the west is bad on many levels, but things won't be changed in the short term, it will go bad in the longer term, however, it will get to a level where it settles down. That level, whatever it is, will still be way above what China was in the 90's or even 2000's, or 2010's.

They might not have next gen or even 5nm tech, I am pretty sure they can figure out the 14nm tech that has been around for like a decade now. I am still using one of those in my 2010 iMac here to type this. It's hardly the Dark Ages.

That is the reality, China will be set back from sanctions, but its effect he suggests is exaggerated into BS territory, hence why that video is garbage.
 
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