Tempted by some cheap GTX460 SLI action? Might want to check this out first before laying down your

[An Exception]

In the case of single GPU Vs Multi GPU, it appears less is more.
From the above video, the REAL performance of SLI GTX 460 is pretty crappy, and if the performance is crappy then it doesn't offer good value either.

Looks as if even something like a single modestly clocked 5850 would give much better performance than 460SLI.

So it seems the GTX480's and 5870's still offer much better REAL value than their cheap SLI/CF counterparts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g1vVJTGdtU

"as you can clearly see now that the ATI cards are smooth compared to nvidia, despite running at a lower framerate. the nvidia cards stutter like crazy and negates the high frame rate readings these cards are able to display."

 

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whatever. stuttering becomes apparent at 30fps and below. most people game at 1080p or 1050p and at these resolutions fps will be much higher with no sign of stuttering.

Then the second card is a waste and by the looks of it, harms performance rather than helps.

 

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Thought its always been considered single cards are 'smoother' than multi gpu cards.

Yep it has, it's just most folks don't know this, and they think they are getting a bargain with their cheap SLI/CF cards, when they would in fact be getting the best value from 5850's of 470's and still better value with the high end single GPU's like 5870's & 480's.

 

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same 30 and below fps. thank you captain obvious everybody knows multi gpu setups stutter when fps are that low.

Lol, so what's the point of multi GPU setups captain slow?

 

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I bet there is still heavy stuttering at even higher FPS until you got way over 60FPS.
30 FPS should still be playable, your TV is only running at 25-30fps.
But it seems 30FPS with SLI added just hurts my eyes...

 

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I cant play any game with fps below 60 let alone below 30. if I was fine with sub 30 fps I would be a console gamer.

Who's talking about gaming below 30fps?

 

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Video proves nothing.

If your not convinced about micro-stutter then you should be able to find enough evidence to convince your self otherwise should you do a little research.

 

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i'm surprised that many people dont know that micro stuttering at 30 or even above below fps exists in every sli/crossfire setup. there is proof all over the internet about that with complete explanation.

Fixed. Micro-stutter that apparent doesn't just stop when you get to 31fps.

 

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it does because at 30fps with micro stuttering dips you actually get less than 30 fps and everybody knows that when fps dip below 30 the difference is huge compared to for example 35 vs 31 fps. not hard to understand. at 60+ fps micro stuttering completely disappears from your eyes unless you own a 120 hz monitor.

No, micro stutter is still noticeable over 30 fps and maybe even slightly at 60 fps as the micro stutter may give the apparent speed of 30fps while it's stuttering which would be a noticeable difference say 60fps to 30fps.
Of course the micro stutter becomes less apparent as you increase the FPS but it doesn't 'actually' disappear although it may become seriously unnoticeable with super-high FPS, but why then use a second GPU?.

 

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I don't know how much more simply I can put it


Microstutter always acts to reduce the apparent framerate.

At framerates where you can catch the output of individual frames, the effect is observable as a a genuine "stutter" - you can see the difference in framerate regularity.

At higher framerates it simply reduces the smoothness of the scene. You can quite easily quantify the apparent framerate at any moment in time, based on the maximum gap between output frames. This gap will necessarily be larger than indicated by the framerate, and so the apparent framerate is necessarily less than indicated by the FPS counter.


If that was too complex for you then I'm not sure what else can be said. Perhaps someone else could translate?

I think Captian Slow probably get's it now...

One thing I don't get, why have you got 480's when you know soo much about micro stutter?

 

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if you get for example 70 fps with micro stutter dips at 64fps you dont notice the difference as your monitor can only display up to 60fps.

That would be the case yes. But if the apparent FPS dropped to 45 which it could do, then you will suffer from some perceptible micro stutter but not quite as bad as witness in the video.

 

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i can see a little micro stutter on the single 5870 or is that just becuase its only 30fps? either way neither are completely smooth to my eyes and oh yes i see every little stutter/hitch.

sli looks horrible in that video tho!

Do you have a brother or on this forum?

 

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wow took you only an hour to get something that simple.

Actually it's you who's been having a hard time 'getting it'.

 

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i will say it for the last time: micro stuttering at 30 or below fps very apparent and it actually looks like stuttering. micro stuttering at 60 or below fps less apparent and it just looks like less fps. micro stuttering at 60fps+ disappears due to monitor limitations.

whatever. stuttering becomes apparent at 30fps and below. most people game at 1080p or 1050p and at these resolutions fps will be much higher with no sign of stuttering.

Micro-stutter over 30fps still looks like stutter even with frame-rates double that... It just depends on how much frame-rate variation you have to how 'stuttery' your gaming experience is perceived.
However there is a general correlation with higher frame-rates making micro-stutter less perceptible, but there is differences between systems and Apps that have different amounts of frame-rate variation.
A system running at over 70FPS with a large frame-rate variation could show more perceptible micro-stutter than a system running at 50fps with less frame-rate variation.
In short, because a system has a very high FPS, it doesn't always mean it has less micro-stutter than a somewhat slower machine or different app. running a lower FPS, but on average the more powerful system is 'likely' to show less micro stutter than a slower one.

However sli scaling offsets the % of the micro stuttering giving you a smoother experience. for example gtx 460 sli >>>>>> gtx 460 even if you take micro stuttering into account.

Some people actually say there system feels much better after having removed their second GPU, even with less FPS.

 

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unless there is a massive price difference.

Not even then...

 

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Because I want to play at 2560*1600 res, and want the performance bump from a multi-GPU setup

I know that microstutter is there with all multi-GPU setups, and that it reduces their performance, but the performance of a multi-GPU setup is still better than a single GPU setup in almost all cases.

As a rough example; SLI adds around 85-90% extra fps over a single GPU setup (at 2560 res). Microstutter usually takes away around 15-25%, depending on the game. That still leaves me with a decent improvement over a single GPU setup. [My gripe with nvidia / ATI is that this performance loss is unneccesary. By adding in tiny delays to the output of frames where needed, a regular and "smooth" game scene could be presented, with only a couple of percent reduction in performance.]

The case where microstutter is most important is the one you mention in the title: Doubling up slower GPUs. I would never go for a dual-GPU setup if there was a single GPU available which was anywhere near as fast. In this case, I would not consider SLI GTX260s when I could get a 5870 or a GTX480 instead. Microstutter eats away enough performance to make the single faster GPU a better bet in the real world.

Ok, fair enough, but I used to game at that res until I sold my 5870 to get a new camera (will probably & shamefully get a PS3 for gran turismo 5 instead now).
Anyway I found that all the games I found actually worth playing, a single 5870 was enough.
I'm just a little surprised even overclocked 480 isn't enough for you?

 

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5870is £300
460 is £112 even sli is only £224

the 460 was run on a higher resolution anyway
whats the point in this thread?

if it was a fair comparison it would be worth talking about but as the res is diffrent in both tests its worthless

5850 only £195, which probably delivers smoother REAL performance than dual 460-750mb SLI

 

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One thing that you missed though:

The single 5870 was only running at around 30 fps at a much lower resolution. The dual GTX 460 was still managing better FPS at 4000x+ resolution, despite the microstutter.

You are also taking the cards far out of their league. Even with a crossfire / SLI setup, most people still only play at 1080p resolution, the reason for having two cards is to get much higher FPS, and tonnes of extra AA in their games. The FPS in just about any game at 1080p is never going to fall low enough on a dual GTX 460 setup to notice any microstutter.

At the resolution the OP tested them at, you would only be able to get close to smooth performance with 2, or 3 2 Gb 5870s. It is not an accurate test when you purposefully push an SLI GTX 460 setup up to that kind of resolution, then record the microstutter in Crysis, because hardly anyone with these cards is going to be playing Crysis across three monitors at that kind of resolution.

Also, I can definately say after having owned crossfire 3850s, 4850s, 4870s, 5770s, and SLI GTX 460s, that I have NEVER seen any kind of microstutter in any game running at around 60 fps or higher. I dont think that anyone else has either, the only time you notice micostutter is when your FPS falls to around 30 fps, and I have no idea how that is going to happen on a dual GTX 460 setup.

Also, on any dual card setup, you should have a quad core CPU overclocked as far as you can to reduce CPU bottlenecking. Since I've been running all my dual card setups on both an E8400 @ 4050 Mhz, and then an I7 920 @ 4200 Mhz is probably a large contributing factor to why I never see any microstutter.

What res are you running at?

 

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Agree with Cupra, pointless thread. I can only understand it being posted if the OP hasn't heard of Micro stutter before. It's bloody pointless trying to compare a single card at low res, then try to force the other card down, and then say it's crap. It's a well known issue the article has just tried to reinvent.

I see scared of bogey micro-stutter man, so it must be a pointless thread, and not one that educates others about the effect that micro-stutter can bring to potential gamers, just because you know what it is, doesn't mean every does.

Who is realistically going to be trying to run that sort of res on budget cards?

(read the following VERY slowly)

The point of the video was to capture the difference between a single and muti GPU setup running at the same frame-rate, not to compare who has the most FPS.
They both were running at 30 FPS while 5870 was just about playable the 460SLI was hideously stuttery!

But to answer your question, at whatever res your play at (except extreme high res), it's very probable a fast single GPU is the best choice for smoother gameplay than two slower cards that give you modestly more FPS.

And it's the last point that makes this thread useful, as it will help someone out there avoid a costly mistake by making an informed decision even if you have already heard of the issue.

 

[An Exception]

1920x1200, max AA in everything, no microstutter.

I play Guildwars with V Sync enabled to the max FPS is capped to 60, I still dont see any microstuter at all.

What frame-rate does a single 460 yield? (which I presume is overclocked and is a 1gb version)