The Militaria Thread: Collecting and Identification

[NickK]

Hi all

I thought I'd add my quick contribution to this thread. I think this is the cockpit clock from a German WW2 luftwaffe aircraft, possibly a BF109.

As long as I can remember this clock worked a treat until it went into storage a few years ago and I recently discovered it again in a dusty box. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work anymore and the 15 minute timer hand has fallen out of the face (still rattling around)

I'm tempted to take it along to the local watchmaker to have a look if he can breathe it back to life.

Get a custom metal holder, add a leather strap.

 

[Cosimo]

[/QUOTE]

So collectors/dealers will have fun and games trying to sell after 8/4?

 

[Maccapacca]

So collectors/dealers will have fun and games trying to sell after 8/4?

There's no real new deactivation specification and no real punishment for non compliance. Yet.

I think there's a lot of unhappy dealers that at the very least will have to have most of their stock deactivated again to the new specification.

 

[cainer]

the way i read this is that if a guns deactivated certificate is dated before the 8th of April 2016 then it is legal to own, and should be ok to sell,

the cynic in me says that WWA are trying to cause a panic to make you feel that you have to buy now purely for sales

 

[Maccapacca]

the way i read this is that if a guns deactivated certificate is dated before the 8th of April 2016 then it is legal to own, and should be ok to sell,

the cynic in me says that WWA are trying to cause a panic to make you feel that you have to buy now purely for sales

Undoubtedly they are yes. They probably hold a great deal of stock which will have to be re deactivated to the new spec. They have 3 303 vickers at 7.5k each they are accepting offers on.

Even if I were to sell, gift or inherit then they need to be bring up to spec after 8/3

 

[cainer]

Undoubtedly they are yes. They probably hold a great deal of stock which will have to be re deactivated to the new spec. They have 3 303 vickers at 7.5k each they are accepting offers on.

Even if I were to sell, gift or inherit then they need to be bring up to spec after 8/3

but do they? (devils advocate here )
they say the home office told them that "all guns deactivated after that date have to conform.."

so i read that as guns being deactivated after that date have to conform, theres no mention in that pic that it applies retrospectively should you happen to sell a gun deactivated before that date

 

[Maccapacca]

It is unclear the original December proposal says all deactivated offered for sale after April will need to be new spec so that's dealers and private sales but it's all being debated mid march.

There is an argument that a deactivated weapon is no longer a weapon and doesn't come under any legislation anyway as well. There will be lots of dealers fighting this and trying to find a work around.

 

[Edrof]

I need a bayonet for my k98 and my swiss rubin, is that one off ebay? I tried one from a friends collection but it wouldn't fit. There's a slight difference between the 1911 and 1889 http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/detail/ I wish I could try yours on mine to see if it fits.

Been looking at the comments on the EU changes and it seems like a great deal of words and no detail, none of the dealers know what's happening and there's no real announcements.

Mine is actually an M1918 - I somehow wrote the numbers in the wrong order! Will that model fit yours?

I think all the utterly terrible rules are coming into play but lots of people don't understand them yet. It's a, frankly, ridiculous state of affairs, and lots of very nice law-abiding people are going to lose a great deal.

 

[thep02]

There's no real new deactivation specification and no real punishment for non compliance. Yet.

I think there's a lot of unhappy dealers that at the very least will have to have most of their stock deactivated again to the new specification.

Will this affect privately held deac's sold privately, I've got an s&w m&p .32 old spec and was thinking of selling it.

 

[Maccapacca]

Will this affect privately held deac's sold privately, I've got an s&w m&p .32 old spec and was thinking of selling it.

Potentially yes. The wording says anything advertised for sale will need to be up to new spec which will mean eventually everything will be new spec deactivated.

 

[Maccapacca]

Mine is actually an M1918 - I somehow wrote the numbers in the wrong order! Will that model fit yours?
.

No I think yours is exactly as my pals I tried a couple of weeks ago. The ring fits over but the rectangular piece was too small.

There was one on ebay with a leather frog I should have had

 

[thep02]

Potentially yes. The wording says anything advertised for sale will need to be up to new spec which will mean eventually everything will be new spec deactivated.

Pah, ta for swift reply.

 

[Edrof]

Potentially yes. The wording says anything advertised for sale will need to be up to new spec which will mean eventually everything will be new spec deactivated.

That's my understanding, too. Everything okay to own now will still be okay after the new laws. But when you sell anything on it will need to be 'updated', which will cost you money.

There was a section in the proposals that stated some of these deacs will be taken away, no matter what. I haven't seen if that's going to come into force or not.

Honestly, how they expect this all to be policed is downright bizarre. Logistically, we have only two proofing houses in the UK and hundreds of thousands of deacs are traded each year by collectors and dealers. They simply will not be able to cope. This is, by far, the most stupid set of rules I've ever witnessed. EVERYTHING about it is counter-productive and idiotic.

All they needed to do was force the rest of Europe to raise their standards of deactivation to meet ours. Simple.

 

[Maccapacca]

I want to follow the thread that Jip is talking about on Facebook that once deactivated it no longer is a weapon so shouldn't be subject to any regulation changes. It's effectively scrap metal and wood shaped as a firearm.

The problem is if they aren't very clear they'll find conflicts with airsoft and others.

Might be a good time to advertise my Bren for silly money before the changes.

 

[Edrof]

I must admit, moving my PPK and Bren on has felt good now, but we don't really know what is going to happen - your Bren might double in price overnight. I don't have a large budget for collecting so I couldn't take the risk. I've kept my Mosin and my SMLE, though - love them too much.

 

[theleg]

My collection isn't worth a huge amount so it's covered under my normal contents insurance. I can't remember the ins and outs but I checked last year and it was all good. A recent purchase:

An 1857 Pattern Royal Engineer's sabre. This Pattern featured one of the most aesthetically pleasing guards. This one has an acid-etched blade but appears to be an issued sword, so it was likely used by a senior NCO. It was made by Mole and handles beautifully - a real sword meant for real fighting.
http://i.imgur.com/dAD0FRhl.jpg[/IG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/h4LTPuql.jpg[/IG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Inu2BL0l.jpg[/IG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/TDNn0fyl.jpg[/IM
Interesting to note is that the guard is bent in a few places, the false edge has a couple of (possible) sword nicks in it and the ricasso is stamped with the back-to-back Rs - a marking used when a weapon was no longer fit for service. I suspect all of this means the sabre was used in action and the wielder had to clout a few enemies with the guard. After the action the guard couldn't be restored to its original shape and it was released from War Department property somehow.[/QUOTE]

That is lovely. How do you find reliable sellers?

 

[Edrof]

Thank you, it's certainly an object of beauty, yet functional too. If you're after antique swords there are lots of reputable dealers online. I can list some if you'd like? You'll pay a premium for them, though. There are other, rougher, ways to find this stuff but you have to do your homework and know where to look.

 

[theleg]

Thank you, it's certainly an object of beauty, yet functional too. If you're after antique swords there are lots of reputable dealers online. I can list some if you'd like? You'll pay a premium for them, though. There are other, rougher, ways to find this stuff but you have to do your homework and know where to look.

Would appreciate a list. As a beginner, i think it would be the better route.

 

[Edrof]

These are some of the biggest:

https://www.michaeldlong.com/
http://www.antiqueswordtrader.co.uk/
http://www.thelanesarmoury.co.uk/
http://www.andrewbottomley.com/
http://www.theswordpattern.co.uk/

I haven't bought from any of them but I regularly browse their stock for knowledge of dealer prices.

If you have a look about and discover what you like in a sword (which country, army or navy, Victorian, ones that were used in certain wars), then I can help you further.

 

[Maccapacca]

Eventually found a bayonet for my Swiss Rubin

There's a few that fit that fit and this is the later one with the modification as the original wouldn't stay in the scabbard

Not bad for 125 odd years old

Model 1899 - (Sometimes referred to as the Model 1889/11 or 1911)



Blade Length - 11.73" (298mm)
Handle Length - 4.37" (111mm)
Total Length - 16.5" (420mm)
Muzzle Ring Diameter - .595" (15mm)
Issued with : Schmidt-Rubin Models 1896/11, 1911 Rifle, 1911 Carbine
Manufacturers: Waffenfabrik Neuhausen

Description: Various sources have given this bayonet a variety of names. Official Swiss records refer to his bayonet as both the Model 1899 and Model 1911. As the bayonet was first issued in the late 1890s, the designation 1899 would seem to be more correct.

As noted above, the Model 1899 added an arresting bar in the fuller to help keep the bayonet in the scabbard. Note: the arresting bar is in both fullers.