Mclaren might be in the poo big time [ANCIENT THREAD REVIVAL]

Mr Men · 15 Sep 2007 at 00:58

dannyjo22 said:
I agree totally, I've always enjoyed talking to and reading Mike Lawerences pieces on that very matter.

Pitpass is my favourite F1 site, bang down the middle

Morba · 15 Sep 2007 at 00:59

ok 8 pages, somewhere in here my question may have been asnwered..

who gets this £49m that mclaren will pay?

dannyjo22 · 15 Sep 2007 at 01:00

Mr Men said:
Pitpass is my favourite F1 site, bang down the middle

Yes, I like the contributors. This to me asks the same questions I've asked on the drivers....

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=32759

Oh well the full transcript will be published soon of both hearings, which should make for interesting reading.

dannyjo22 · 15 Sep 2007 at 01:02

Morba said:
who gets this £49m that mclaren will pay?

Michael Schumacher

The FIA will get it, for setting up safe driving courses, improving safety etc and the christmas dinner. Expect Max to turn up with some new bling

Mr Men · 15 Sep 2007 at 01:03

Morba said:
ok 8 pages, somewhere in here my question may have been asnwered..

who gets this £49m that mclaren will pay?

FIA get's it I believe, they will use it to pay for some road safety campaign or something

Wicksta · 15 Sep 2007 at 01:15

dannyjo22 said:
Exactly, Ferrari apparently have been using the floor like that for 3 years. Yet all of a sudden Mclaren seek clarification on something that moves a tiny amount at highspeed.

So why weren't Ferrari punished for having a device that deliberately circumvented FIA tests?

Mr Men · 15 Sep 2007 at 01:32

Wicksta said:
So why weren't Ferrari punished for having a device that deliberately circumvented FIA tests?

Because the device passed the FIA tests, until the FIA changed the tests and Ferrari changed the floor. Much like the Mass Dampers, or McLaren's 3rd brake pedal.

Emlyn_Dewar · 15 Sep 2007 at 01:35

It's interesting to see everyone blast Alonso to high hell...
Nobody gives a **** about Filthy, sorry, Pedro de la Rosa, who was the instigator of the email bull...
Never mind, aslong as you all get to see your Golden Messiah contest for his false chamionship, we're all good...
No matter who wins this year, Silver or Red, it's false and hollow. Just keep bleating for the ultimate moanfest though. No-one likes the Spanish...

dannyjo22 · 15 Sep 2007 at 01:36

Wicksta said:
So why weren't Ferrari punished for having a device that deliberately circumvented FIA tests?

It didnt. It passed the required tests. In the spirit of the rules though the Floor shouldnt move at all. The previous ruling said it shouldn't move with X load. It didnt.

This happens all the time. As I said Renaults mass damper, Mclaren and Williams Michelin tyres also passed the tests but weren't really in the spirit of the ruling. So they change the way it's measured or firm up the rule.

Happens all the time.

elmuzzy66. · 15 Sep 2007 at 01:54

Emlyn_Dewar said:
It's interesting to see everyone blast Alonso No-one likes the Spanish...

Indeed tell me about it im from gibraltar. We have geniune reason lol

Duke · 15 Sep 2007 at 08:06

ITV-F1.com said:
McLaren boss Ron Dennis has revealed that he was the source of the new evidence that prompted the FIA to revisit the spying case.

The governing body reconvened the World Motor Sport Council after additional evidence came to light, the core of which was an exchange of emails between McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa and world champion Fernando Alonso.

As a result, McLaren was thrown out of the 2007 constructors' championship and hit with a record fine.

Dennis said at Spa on Friday that he approached the FIA as soon as he became aware of the existence of the emails.

“Once I became aware that new evidence might exist which I did on the morning of the Hungarian GP (5 August), I immediately phoned the FIA to keep them informed,” he said.

Dennis added that McLaren is still considering whether to appeal Thursday's WMSC verdict.

“We now have seven days to appeal and are carefully considering the company’s position once we have a full understanding of the FIA’s findings,” he said.

What the..?

shrek2 · 15 Sep 2007 at 08:07

Yes thank you Ron for your honesty .............Not :rolleyes:

JRS · 15 Sep 2007 at 09:01

Duke said:
What the..?

Yes. The story seems to be this:

Alonso tells Ron that he's going to release the e-mails, as part of a negotiation tactic. Ron says "bugger that" and tells the FIA about them before Alonso gets the chance to do so.

You'd have to say, the more that comes out about this saga the worse it looks for Alonso.

Type_R · 15 Sep 2007 at 09:06

shrek2 said:
Yes thank you Ron for your honesty .............Not

Ron Dennis turns into a legend...not even Montoya the cheating scum managed to twist his arm as well as Alonso (who has achieved a higher level than any in unsportsmanship like behaviour!).

I would like to see Alonso expelled from the team as of today. Surely he is contracted to Mclaren so they can suspend him whenever and with the constructors lost already, there is no point in having Alonso race at all for the rest of this season - that would teach him!

Slam62 · 15 Sep 2007 at 09:10

JRS said:
Yes. The story seems to be this:

Alonso tells Ron that he's going to release the e-mails, as part of a negotiation tactic. Ron says "bugger that" and tells the FIA about them before Alonso gets the chance to do so.

You'd have to say, the more that comes out about this saga the worse it looks for Alonso.

Finally we are getting to the crux of the matter.

If there is any honour left in the sport Alonso should be gone

Alonso will win the championship having been shown to deliberately cheat and lie his way there.

Hamilton and the Ferrari drivers are the only honest ones and any of them deserve the championship, if Hamilton won it could be argued that it was assisted by an illegal car, but the information doesn't appear to have actually been used.

Slam62 · 15 Sep 2007 at 09:12

Type_R said:
Ron Dennis turns into a legend...not even Montoya the cheating scum managed to twist his arm as well as Alonso (who has achieved a higher level than any in unsportsmanship like behaviour!).

I would like to see Alonso expelled from the team as of today. Surely he is contracted to Mclaren so they can suspend him whenever and with the constructors lost already, there is no point in having Alonso race at all for the rest of this season - that would teach him!

It's the Spanish money doing the talking :mad:

JRS · 15 Sep 2007 at 09:16

Slam62 said:
if Hamilton won it could be argued that it was assisted by an illegal car, but the information doesn't appear to have actually been used.

Ah, but Alonso was blocking Lewis from seeing his setup data wasn't he? So I doubt he's actually seen much of the 'assistance' Alonso got from the Ferrari data.

JRS · 15 Sep 2007 at 09:31

Wait a minute....

The drivers were promised amnesty if they co-operated fully with the investigation, right? But it was supposedly Ron who handed over the correspondence, not Alonso. So how on Earth did Alonso get off scot free? I can see why they wouldn't boot Lewis out. He's not implicated in this nonsense at all. But Alonso is in it up to his petulant childish cheating neck.

(I may be slow, but I get there in the end!)

Slam62 · 15 Sep 2007 at 09:41

JRS said:
Wait a minute....

The drivers were promised amnesty if they co-operated fully with the investigation, right? But it was supposedly Ron who handed over the correspondence, not Alonso. So how on Earth did Alonso get off scot free? I can see why they wouldn't boot Lewis out. He's not implicated in this nonsense at all. But Alonso is in it up to his petulant childish cheating neck.

(I may be slow, but I get there in the end!)

Afraid so, bad isn't it

As I said earlier if you were guilty of a crime and confessed you may get a reduced punishment but not scot free :confused:

Vertigo · 15 Sep 2007 at 09:51

Mr Men said:
LOL are you kidding? McLaren produced clear technical drawings of the floor, after one race, you tell me how McLaren got that info when the floor only moved at 160MPH. Stepney emailed the info to Coughlan.

I never said Coughlin didn't receive it from Stepney, try reading my comment again.

What I said was that the information regarding the illegal floor of the Ferrari was passed from Stepney to Coughlin prior to the large dossier of files and the FIA was informed about it as McLaren believed the floor was illegal. No data about the floor was used to McLaren's advantage - we know this because this was all covered in the original WMSC hearing in July and no sanctions were imposed because there was no evidence of competitive benefit.

dannyjo22 said:
So your saying that they weren't in possesion then of another teams IP?

I'm saying that "they" isn't the McLaren team, it's a few individuals acting independently. You seem incapable of discerning the difference.

That knowing when a driver is going to pit is not of interest and benefit to mclaren. Knowing details of their brakes and tyre usage is not of benefit to mclaren?

"McLaren" didn't know, Alonso did.

I'm not claiming they didn't have the information, merely trying to point out that there's a world of difference between a few "rogue" individuals obtaining and trying (note no proof they actually succeeded) to use it and the McLaren team using the information at a management-sanctioned level.

Most of the management knew very little about any of this and those that did told those involved to cease contact with Ferrari and destroy any information they had. It was Dennis himself that told the FIA about the email exchanges involving the drivers and Coughlin, when he finally discovered what had been going on.

McLaren "the team" has done everything by the book. When they initially heard about it they told the people involved to cease and desist and when they found more evidence they informed the FIA. For their trouble, the FIA has santioned them rather than those involved and responsible. Madness.