Becoming a vegetarian...

Can I ask a serious question here (namely at vegans, as I'm not to sure about veggies ideas on some the points)

If we all stop eating meat, as we (evey humman in the world ) find the slaughter of animals wrong. What then do we do with all the farm animals, as they are no longer useful and will not begiven space as the land will be dedicated to crops, and no one will want to keep them as it would be a pointless cost? This is why its aimed at vegans who don't drink milk etc/do they use wool?

So would this mean that if we all became vegan to save the animals we would then have to needlesly slaughter and burn/bury(sp?) them all?

I belive this would lead to the extinction of the cow,chicken and sheep. So surly we should continue to eat meat to preserve these animals existance?

Thank you to any veggies/vegans for any answers, I've always wondered this when people talk about its wrong to kill the animals.
 
Tefal said:
Can I ask a serious question here (namely at vegans, as I'm not to sure about veggies ideas on some the points)

If we all stop eating meat, as we (evey humman in the world ) find the slaughter of animals wrong. What then do we do with all the farm animals, as they are no longer useful and will not begiven space as the land will be dedicated to crops, and no one will want to keep them as it would be a pointless cost? This is why its aimed at vegans who don't drink milk etc/do they use wool?

So would this mean that if we all became vegan to save the animals we would then have to needlesly slaughter and burn/bury(sp?) them all?

I belive this would lead to the extinction of the cow,chicken and sheep. So surly we should continue to eat meat to preserve these animals existance?

Thank you to any veggies/vegans for any answers, I've always wondered this when people talk about its wrong to kill the animals.
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Well I'm not a veggie or vegan, but I'm sure it's something anyone could answer.

If you didn't eat chicken, their eggs would still be useful, as would the feathers.
If you didn't eat beef, the milk would still be useful, as would the hide.
If you didn't eat lamb, the fleece would still be useful.

So reducing them as meat products, they still provide an excellent source of other products that we need.

As for the numbers, it would be the needs meeting the demand. The reason why farmer Giles has so many cows, lambs and chickens is to feed the population that requires them. If the population didn't require them, then there wouldn't be as many.
 
furnace said:
It affects the market though - if all the veggies became meat eaters, they would breed more cows to be killed for them to eat. So by being veggie, the net result is less cows are killed. If I bred a dog and put it in a box, then said "It's OK I'm going to eat him", would it be OK for me to tell you to eat him because he wouldn't of had a life anyway?

Just accept that some people don't want to eat meat, rather than argue with whatever points they make and try and convince them they're doing something pointless ;)
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I can accept that fine. I won't argue with any point that you, as a veggie, can make. My gf is veggie, we'll be raising our as yet un-born child as a veggie. I might even mostly make the change myself (apart from the odd fillet steak, rare of course). If animals are raised specifically for my meals and they live a reasonably decent life which they wouldn't have had otherwise, then I'm happy with that. I try as best I can to not eat meat from farms which treat the animals dubiously. I don't eat lamb or veal or stuff like that.
 
Tefal, ignoring the fact that your question is purely hypothetical since all the people in the world will never stop eating meat entirely (nor should they have to).

If there was no demand for animals for meat then fewer animals would be bred so it doesn't have to be a mass slaughter, it could be a gradual reduction.

What do you mean the animals are no longer useful? Cats/guinea pigs/parrots aren't particularly useful but people keep them so there is no reason to suppose that some people would not still keep cows/chickens/sheep as pets or for milk/eggs/wool. I'm not entirely sure but I believe most vegans will still wear wool so sheep still have a use in that way as well as milk and potentially as pets.
 
Fubar said:
I would like to stop eating meat. I have always enjoyed eating meat. However, I first started questioning the morality behind eating meat a few years ago, but have kept putting it off and just kept on eating it and blocking out any thought behind how it actually gets to me. Now I just can't put it of anymore.

How hard is it to totally cut out meat, fish, poultry, gelatine etc...?
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Hmm, think about all the other things in your life that harm animals/people/the entire world first, then see if you wanna give any of those up. I've been a vege for 13 years, used to be for moral reasons, then I realised I was a massive hypocrite becuase I wasn't prepared to give up the things I really liked in life that probably harmed animals and everything else even more! Basically everyone who claims to be a vege becuase they don't want to harm animals or loves animals, is a hypocrite. I'd love to see moral veges/vegans give up their cars, their alcohol, their cosmetics, their computers, their tv's and their clothes, but I doubt that would happen becuase that would actually mean having to make a sacrifice. /Rant over
 
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semi-pro waster said:
If there was no demand for animals for meat then fewer animals would be bred so it doesn't have to be a mass slaughter, it could be a gradual reduction.
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I think farmers would just Immediately slaughter all the chickens/cows, to put the land to new use rather than buying them food till they die of old age, and yes i under stand some parts of the animal are still useful, but i thought vegans didn't eat eggs/milk/wore leather hence why it was mainly aimed at them. But also another quick question do veggies wear leather, as surly killing a cow for its skin is as bad as its meat?


I don't think many people would keep cows as pets due to the size and cost prblems.

But yes i do understand that we will never all stop eating meat, but that then makes me think why be a veggie? the animal will still be killed whether you or anyone else eats it or not, may as well get some use(meaning?) out of its death?
 
Samione said:
Hmm, think about all the other things in your life that harm animals/people/the entire world first, then see if you wanna give any of those up. I've been a vege for 13 years, used to be for moral reasons, then I realised I was a massive hypocrite becuase I wasn't prepared to give up the things I really liked in life that probably harmed animals and everything else even more! Basically everyone who claims to be a vege becuase they don't want to harm animals or loves animals, is a hypocrite. I'd love to see moral veges/vegans give up their cars, their alcohol, their cosmetics, their computers, their tv's and their clothes, but I doubt that would happen becuase that would actually mean having to make a sacrifice. /Rant over
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And this is just as bad as vegetarians who preach, you are trying to put across your viewpoint as if it were the only correct one. Why does it have to be all or nothing? From your post it seems as if you are saying that you either do nothing that might harm an animal (cower in a corner somewhere crying yourself to sleep for the 3 days you'll survive?) or you go all out and don't try to lessen any animals suffering at all.

A small change in the world is better than no change at all to my mind, sure there are a lot of things that will directly and indirectly harm animals that most people (myself included) won't even think of but doing something is better than nothing. :)
 
Tefal said:
But also another quick question do veggies wear leather, as surly killing a cow for its skin is as bad as its meat?
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Technically speaking you don't have to kill a cow purely for the skin, it can be done as a part of the meat production process or in theory it could be taken from cows dying of natural causes although this would not supply the worlds demand for leather at present rates.

Tefal said:
I don't think many people would keep cows as pets due to the size and cost prblems.
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You might be surprised but I take the point, then again I wouldn't keep a sheep as a pet and I know a few people who do or have done.

Tefal said:
But yes i do understand that we will never all stop eating meat, but that then makes me think why be a veggie? the animal will still be killed whether you or anyone else eats it or not, may as well get some use(meaning?) out of its death?
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I think you are pushing it slightly talking about the "meaning" that you can get out of an animals death for your steak, "use" is about as far as I think you can stretch the point. If people didn't eat meat then the chances are that the animal wouldn't have been bred in first place so it can't die if it was never alive. You can be a vegetarian for several reasons, animals suffering isn't the only one.
 
I recently had a surprise from one of my sister's friends. She qualified as a vet a couple of years ago and told me that she'd recently started eating red meat after working in an abbatoir and deciding that the animals were treated well. She still won't touch chicken though (on principle).

I actually think that of all the ethical causes, vegetarianism is one of the more pointless (always been more interested in human rights). Plus I love meat and have no intention of giving it up but I do prefer to know that animals have been well kept. I try to buy most of my meat from farm shops and farmers markets, where the whole process is pretty transparent, and get free range etc.

One ethical concession I do have is avoiding eating endangered species. In practice this acually means I'm rather more fussy about fish than meat. Fish and chips is a pain to get hold of now I can't have cod caught from an unsustainable fishery. Getting fussy about the source of tuna too, and I won't have shark at all.
 
semi-pro waster said:
And this is just as bad as vegetarians who preach, you are trying to put across your viewpoint as if it were the only correct one. Why does it have to be all or nothing? From your post it seems as if you are saying that you either do nothing that might harm an animal (cower in a corner somewhere crying yourself to sleep for the 3 days you'll survive?) or you go all out and don't try to lessen any animals suffering at all.

A small change in the world is better than no change at all to my mind, sure there are a lot of things that will directly and indirectly harm animals that most people (myself included) won't even think of but doing something is better than nothing. :)
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This is really aimed at those moral high horse vegetarians who think they're ghandi. I personally feel 1 murder is a bad as 10 if the murders are preventable. I don't feel comfortable saying I do something for reason XYZ if I completely contradict myself, that's just me though, obviously.
 
semi-pro waster said:
Technically speaking you don't have to kill a cow purely for the skin, it can be done as a part of the meat production process or in theory it could be taken from cows dying of natural causes although this would not supply the worlds demand for leather at present rates.



You might be surprised but I take the point, then again I wouldn't keep a sheep as a pet and I know a few people who do or have done.



I think you are pushing it slightly talking about the "meaning" that you can get out of an animals death for your steak, "use" is about as far as I think you can stretch the point. If people didn't eat meat then the chances are that the animal wouldn't have been bred in first place so it can't die if it was never alive. You can be a vegetarian for several reasons, animals suffering isn't the only one.
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Thank you for the answers :)
 
:eek:

Seems I opened a can of worms here.

I feel as if I can do this. I never choose to eat meat if I have the option, I only eat it when it's been cooked for me, or in a situation when there is nothing else to eat, i.e Monday morning at Leeds festival and there is only bacon.

If I can plan ahead, make my mother aware that I no longer want to eat meat (which has put me off for years, she will probably refuse to). Even if it resorts to me preparing my own even meals, I suppose I should be doing that now anyway :p

Cheers for all the input guys, I'm going to give this a shot.

And all you guys saying it's pointless? Well the animals that die day after day after living pretty short and unhappy lives is pointless, but that's ok isn't it?
 
Fubar said:
And all you guys saying it's pointless? Well the animals that die day after day after living pretty short and unhappy lives is pointless, but that's ok isn't it?
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Ok many chickens i can see as being mistreated, but many cows and sheep seem pretty jolly :)
 
monkeyspank said:
I can accept that fine. I won't argue with any point that you, as a veggie, can make. My gf is veggie, we'll be raising our as yet un-born child as a veggie. I might even mostly make the change myself (apart from the odd fillet steak, rare of course). If animals are raised specifically for my meals and they live a reasonably decent life which they wouldn't have had otherwise, then I'm happy with that. I try as best I can to not eat meat from farms which treat the animals dubiously. I don't eat lamb or veal or stuff like that.
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Hey, I'd only been awake for an hour... didn't realise how grouchy my post was, apologies :p

@fubar, I told my Mum back in the days (I'm the only veggie in the family - literally the whole family - not just in the house) and she didn't seem to mind. I do have to prepare my own food though, but I don't mind. Well actually my girlfriend cooks 9 times out of 10 :D
 
badbob said:
Hitler was a vegetarian. So he thought it was wrong to eat meat, but kill people in the millions..hmm

Probably lack of vitamins from meat caused him to think like that :-D
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Actually that's not true. Allegedly he was recommended a vegetarian diet because apparently meat gave Hitler high flatulence (HAHAHAHA), but he continued to eat it anyway, from what I've read anyway.
 
What's immoral about eating meat? And if you really cared about animals you would become a veterinarian not a vegetarian, or a vegetarian veterinarian.
 
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