Not entirely relevant to today's game, but can anyone remember the last time Gerrard played well in back2back games for England? From what I've seen of him lately in an England shirt he's been well off the boil, yet he is hailed as our most talented player. It seem fashionable to bash Lampard these days but to be perfectly frank I don't remember him being much worse than Gerrard.
Euro Qualifiers 13th & 17th October **Spoilers**
- Thread starter Anders0n
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Absolutely awful performance tonight from England.
I thought it would all go wrong when he played a right footed centre back at left back, a man with less than 45 minutes International experience in a game that we needed to get something from. Personally I would have played Nicky Shorey. He doesn't have that much more experience, but in the games he has played he has done well, and done the basics very well, including a good performance against Brazil, and more importantly he is left footed.
We never looked up for the game, and even our goal came against the run of play, and all credit to Russia, they wanted the game more than us, and got the reward they deserved.
It was typical England, rather than try and kill teams off we sat back, at best out defending was awful, yes we can say that if Gerrard has finished his chance it would have been 2-0 and game over, and people would have been praising Mclaren, or the referee could have spotted the penalty being outside the box, but the fact is, we dont deserve to be in Euro 2008 after our qualifying performances.
Mclarens lack of tactical knowledge shone through when he decided to bring on Crouch and Downing, no disrespect to Downing but he is not International class and Crouch hasn't had the games this season to warrant an England place. Lampard should have come on earlier.
Russia's second goal was a prime example of our defending throughout the game, we never won a third ball, let alone the second ball, and when you see the goal, after Robinson's save (some are going to partly blame him, yet he did the best he could, he could have pushed it wide, but he was unsighted to begin with) but Ferdinand and Lescott were both in front of the Russian when the save was made, yet he had the desire to get there first.
With any luck one thing that will come from this is that maybe, just maybe someone will take a good long look at the England setup and stop picking players based on past performances and start to give players with good form, and the desire to play for their country the chance. Too many players on that pitch tonight did not deserve to be wearing the England shirt.
I thought it would all go wrong when he played a right footed centre back at left back, a man with less than 45 minutes International experience in a game that we needed to get something from. Personally I would have played Nicky Shorey. He doesn't have that much more experience, but in the games he has played he has done well, and done the basics very well, including a good performance against Brazil, and more importantly he is left footed.
We never looked up for the game, and even our goal came against the run of play, and all credit to Russia, they wanted the game more than us, and got the reward they deserved.
It was typical England, rather than try and kill teams off we sat back, at best out defending was awful, yes we can say that if Gerrard has finished his chance it would have been 2-0 and game over, and people would have been praising Mclaren, or the referee could have spotted the penalty being outside the box, but the fact is, we dont deserve to be in Euro 2008 after our qualifying performances.
Mclarens lack of tactical knowledge shone through when he decided to bring on Crouch and Downing, no disrespect to Downing but he is not International class and Crouch hasn't had the games this season to warrant an England place. Lampard should have come on earlier.
Russia's second goal was a prime example of our defending throughout the game, we never won a third ball, let alone the second ball, and when you see the goal, after Robinson's save (some are going to partly blame him, yet he did the best he could, he could have pushed it wide, but he was unsighted to begin with) but Ferdinand and Lescott were both in front of the Russian when the save was made, yet he had the desire to get there first.
With any luck one thing that will come from this is that maybe, just maybe someone will take a good long look at the England setup and stop picking players based on past performances and start to give players with good form, and the desire to play for their country the chance. Too many players on that pitch tonight did not deserve to be wearing the England shirt.
No it doesn't.
Caporegime
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to be fair i still think he's by far and away the most succesful DIVER we have. ok didn't spot any tonight but the last few games, as many before he's just dreadful. think most people remember his in the box dive i think early world cup, despite no players within 3-4 yards of him. he's become an embarrasement to england, also remembering two dives against sheffield, which both won penalties. thats why i say most succesful, joe cole dives every 4.5 seconds on the pitch or throws his arms up anytime he makes a bad pass asking for a freekick, apparently as sympathy for him being crap.
lack of technical players is no reason for england not to win. firstly we have a heck of a lot of good players, secondly, bolton can beat man u and arsenal, you need everything working at some level, players, tactics, formation, balance and you need to know the opposition.
somehow they are saying we were comftable, which seems a joke, first half they were playing for the draw. then they bought on an attacking player and shifted gears and went for goals. the whole second half we barely bothered getting forward, playing men behind the ball type football and inviting the pressure, away, in tough conditions is a plain idiotic idea, now mcclaren or gerrard as the captain HAS to take responsibility for that.
gerrard ha been crap for ages. gerrard lampard was always retarded. basing the entire gameplan for years on winning freekicks for beckham to score just led to us being completely unable to play good football, and now we are still bad without his goals from freekicks. bringing him back into the team just as they started to get a grip without him, just to drop straight back into diving in and around the box to get freekicks broke any idea's the team had of trying to play properly.
owen hargreaves was a hated player, and suddenly, after not a great performance, but simply being the best out of a terrible team in the last game in the world cup has somehow made people think we need him. he can't tackle, he can't pass, he thinks he can score from 35 yards, and man u fans will now tell you that infact, he can't even get within 10 yards of the goal from that distance.
joe cole is all tricks and no end product, look over his record for the last 5 years, then take out all shots off target that got deflected in, when his luck isn't running he's useless. you can't build a team on someone that might get lucky every 5th game. SWP, hasn't done to badly against crap teams, but against better teams, with much better players, and much stronger/faster players and he's just muscled out of games, much like whenever chelsea play decent teams and he's completely innocuous. lennon is agreat right winger, ousted for beckhams return, pushed to the left when he's completely incapable of playing. he's had to play left wing for spurs aswell and completely dissappears from games, where as the right wing he dominates. he needs another chance on the right.
barry + lampard should be the combo to try, with proper strikers playing, IE rooney and owen. crouch is utter crap. who else, i'm not a david james fan, but if he could play for england not long after being in the worst form the premiership may have seen from a keeper while at west ham, then surely he could play now, while he's on top form and not prone to mistakes anymore, unlike robinson.
we don't lack gifted players, we are the stupid country that reads the sun, checks all the names that make the papers for their tricks, put them all in the team and assume they'll magically gel together.
gattuso isn't very techically gifted at all, without him italy are incredibly different and worse, he simply gives the balance to the players along side him. the makelele strong man in midfield, which barry is now providing, we need a balanced team. joe cole, swp, crouch shouldn't even be in the running for back up positions in the squad based on form and just talent/determination/end product. we have more than enough players for a world cup winning squad, we simply ignore any players without a high enough profile, or any "balance players".
for every henry you need someone to defend because he won't. for every fabregas/lampard you need a gilberto/makelele to make them really shine. for every gerrard, you need 60k scousers to tell him how good he is before he bothers performing...... wait where'd that one come from
also this ridiculous notion you need a heskey to go with an owen. owen setup rooneys goal, and rooney will set up goals for owen and both can finish. heskey can barely setup goals and can't finish. two strikers who are capable of scoring with either feet, or head, from crosses, corners, the pace to run onto a long ball or out muscle the defense. or one big guy whose slow who can't shoot but might win a header or two more than a little guy?
You know things are getting bad when Gilly is rooting for Scotland!
Haven't seen the match but going to Russia and getting three points is asking a lot to be fair, better teams have probably fallen short there but England have got themselves into this position due to some results earlier in qualification. Don't lose your away games and win the home games is the golden rule in club European football and same applies in qualification. That draw against Macedonia was criminal I think.
I've said it before and got criticised for my opinion but I'll say it again. I just don't feel England really play as a team, it is like there are 11 individuals on the pitch. The defence to be fair usually do well but the midfield just isn't working, there is no real link man who knits it all together. People talked badly about Sven but look at him right now at Man City where he has Elano who really brings things together for me. England need to find that player and find balance in the midfield.
I still think England will get through tbh.
Man of Honour
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Henry 80, 81. I did think for a second Lithuania might be able to do us a favour but apparantly not, they must have given it back to Henry pretty much straight from kick-off.
Pretty typical of Scotland though, it would have to go down to the final match just to see if we can make it.
Soldato
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Nice long post i've left the worst of it, this coming from a spurs fan, robinson had a clear sight of the ball, attackers always have more desire to get to the ball then defenders do. Its a thing that ALL defenders need to address in the ENGLISH game! the tactics were spot on , they killed the crowd, combination of **** finishing, poor reffing and most important of all Mclown was let down by his so called "key/world class" delete as you see fit. For once the boss wasn't to blame tonight IMO , he has been in the past but not tonight. just my 2p worth
Dude what age are you 4? We played them 5 years ago I think in a play off for the last Euro Finals, England beats us 2-0 at Hampden and We beat England 1-0 at Wembley, it wasnt that long ago... Gob Smacked no Scots or English supporter wouldnt remember that!!
Tonights england qualifier vs Russia
Am gutted and drunk at tonights result. McClaren was nver the man (loose term) for the job. Sack him now as we have no chance of qualifying. Its a disaster. I hate all the
in the interviews after the match. Just say the truth we arnt good enough. Too many foreigners in the english league. Why develop home talent when the top premiership clubs can open their cheque books and buy in all the foreigners!" It should be a rule that to play in Europe you have to have a min of , say, 5 english players in squad.
Certain premiership clubs have played top premiership matches with zero english players (Arsenal hold your head in shame)
Anyway i'm a Leeds lad and and proud we play English lads.
God bless you all
Deks
Am gutted and drunk at tonights result. McClaren was nver the man (loose term) for the job. Sack him now as we have no chance of qualifying. Its a disaster. I hate all the
in the interviews after the match. Just say the truth we arnt good enough. Too many foreigners in the english league. Why develop home talent when the top premiership clubs can open their cheque books and buy in all the foreigners!" It should be a rule that to play in Europe you have to have a min of , say, 5 english players in squad.Certain premiership clubs have played top premiership matches with zero english players (Arsenal hold your head in shame)
Anyway i'm a Leeds lad and and proud we play English lads.
God bless you all
Deks
A slight ray of light israel drew 1-1 with russia, in russia.
Management has to be blamed here he after all picks the players and instructs them on how to play.The idea that we are not good enough is besides the point, many teams will qualify with 0 world class players and many teams have won cups without any so called world class players.Such as porto under jose, korea got to the semi's of world cup under guus
so it really is all about the management.
How you can say sitting back on a 1-0 lead and soaking up from a team fighting for their life to qualify are spot on tactics is beyond me.
I just can't help but feel this russia vs israel game is going to be DODGY & SUSPECT especially motivation from israel to say the least ! the way key russian personnel were celebrating including Abramovic you could see it was a forgone conclusion that russia were through ,maybe even pay offs involved which i am sure is rife in the game anyway what would israel care they are out.
Management has to be blamed here he after all picks the players and instructs them on how to play.The idea that we are not good enough is besides the point, many teams will qualify with 0 world class players and many teams have won cups without any so called world class players.Such as porto under jose, korea got to the semi's of world cup under guus
so it really is all about the management.
How you can say sitting back on a 1-0 lead and soaking up from a team fighting for their life to qualify are spot on tactics is beyond me.
I just can't help but feel this russia vs israel game is going to be DODGY & SUSPECT especially motivation from israel to say the least ! the way key russian personnel were celebrating including Abramovic you could see it was a forgone conclusion that russia were through ,maybe even pay offs involved which i am sure is rife in the game anyway what would israel care they are out.
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I wound up a Liverpool supporting mate of mine during the WC last summer (while watching England struggle to beat Trinidad & Tobago in the Munich fanpark) by repeatedly singing at him 'There's only two Steven Gerrards...' repeatedly
Sadly I'm increasingly convinced I'm right, there's the Liverpool Steven Gerrard who can drag his team kicking and screaming to beat AC Milan in the CL Final and then there's England Steven Gerrard, which the less there is said about the better
Sadly I'm increasingly convinced I'm right, there's the Liverpool Steven Gerrard who can drag his team kicking and screaming to beat AC Milan in the CL Final and then there's England Steven Gerrard, which the less there is said about the better
Caporegime
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It didn't do Sven any harm, he got through all qualifying rounds without problems, even with the burden of Keegan's dismal start in the qualifying with the lost against Germany at home. Only lost in the quarter finals on penalties.
I bet people would give their right arm to be in the quarter finals in the European championship right now.
Bring back Sven !!!
I bet people would give their right arm to be in the quarter finals in the European championship right now.
Bring back Sven !!!
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Soldato
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Greece qualified first , start polishing the cup cause the boys are comin
For me croatia france italy germany definitely between those 4 and i would say german efficiency wins again.
.
here's how i see the quarters
Quarters
spain vs holland
germany vs portugal
france vs croatia
italy vs sweden
Semi's
holland vs germany
france vs italy
Final
france vs germany
germany wins
But in my head england wins.
.here's how i see the quarters
Quarters
spain vs holland
germany vs portugal
france vs croatia
italy vs sweden
Semi's
holland vs germany
france vs italy
Final
france vs germany
germany wins
But in my head england wins.
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I think thats been proven wrong over the last few games to be honest.
Even the last couple of home games the opposition had enough chances to get in the box (even though they didnt connect with the final ball) - yes there is an arguement that Gerrard wasnt ever deployed in role - but certainly last night and during phases in other games it was like he wasnt there - he has been brilliant in the past and Im sure he will come back to that level, but he needs a rest
ATM the only reason Gerrard is being picked over Carrick is that C is actually injured - otherwise Carrick is actually playing better , and thats more about how badly/ far Gerrard has fallen
Caporegime
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Am gutted and drunk at tonights result. McClaren was nver the man (loose term) for the job. Sack him now as we have no chance of qualifying. Its a disaster. I hate all the
Certain premiership clubs have played top premiership matches with zero english players (Arsenal hold your head in shame)
Anyway i'm a Leeds lad and and proud we play English lads.
God bless you all
Deks
some people have no clue, firstly arsenal have in the past had a shedload of internationals who all put their all into every single england game. secondly, we train up, and have been letting england under 21 and future england full internationals go to other premiership clubs for substantially less than they are worth. man u, and other clubs dump people off for over priced to championship clubs, we let bentley go to a competing premiership club, for quite a bit less than his potential was worth, we've done this with multiple players. we could have course keep future potentials who can't break into the team as reserves and price them out of the market or refuse to let them go to other premiership clubs then in 5 years they might get a few games at arsenal and that would make you happy?
so arsenal are letting england players go to continue to become better at other prem clubs for cheaper, while spurs, man u and dozens of other clubs as soon as they have a good potential international thats english, triple the price, making rio, carrick, rooney, WALCOTT, joe cole, lampard, SWP all ridiculously expensive compared to how good they were at the time they were bought or which only 2 of those players have really become players of the quality their price warranted(so far).
so this is arsenals fault for encouraging people to buy english players for real value and giving them first team, its not all those other clubs fault for pricing english players out of the market. well done for helping screw everything up.
there is still more than enough players in this country to win any cup, we just choose completely the wrong team.
as for saying its not mcclowns fault tonight because of poor performances and ref's. joe cole is always crap, but he chooses him, swp is always out muscled and drops out of games, yet he was chosen, gerrard has been crap for england for ages, and also bad for pool this year but was chosen. he also let the players defend deep and give the game away, his fault.
the ref may have got the penalty slightly wrong, but then rooney was offside for the goal, slightly. its this ridiculous notion from mcclown and gerrard that we were completely comftable up till the goals. it was like watching man u against sheffield utd, sheffield get a lucky goal then spend the whole 2nd half sitting on the edge of their box batting back repeated crosses and having no possession. you KNOW man u will eventually damn well score ,it was coming from about 5 mins into the second half and for 25 mins england did nothing to change before we finally conceded a goal that was plainly obviously coming.