Goodbye England, Hello Europe? ( :( )

[platypus]

It's absolutely disgusting that this is going through without a referendum.

 

[Spie]

It's absolutely disgusting that this is going through without a referendum.

Agreed. Did you watch Newsnight last night? Many member states were fully aware their citizens would vote NO so were desperate to rush agreement through without a referendum.

Despicable behaviour for elected politicians. Even more despicable that we were promised a referendum and were lied to.

 

[Alex_6n2]

Wonderful lets open our selves to higher tax, possibility of the euro and more imigrants, cheers Gordon, doing a fab job you ***!

Yes because that's what this is about...

 

[Padders]

It's absolutely disgusting that this is going through without a referendum.

But, one of the overriding problems with referendums is adequately explaining to the proles what the issue at hand is - that, and trusting them to do the right thing, hence:

Agreed. Did you watch Newsnight last night? Many member states were fully aware their citizens would vote NO so were desperate to rush agreement through without a referendum.

Perhaps an integrated I.Q. test with every ballot paper?

 

[Spie]

But if there was a referendum there would definately be a no vote, purely because a lot of people wouldn't bother looking into the issues and would vote no through ignorance. Can't our politicans be trusted to make the right choice?

The only thing politicians can be trusted to do i look after their own interests. That's why the EU gravy train is so appealing.

 

[Diesel]

Like you have said, the UK is GB and Northern Ireland, plus other territories like the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and places like Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands.

No, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is exactly that and does not include the Isle of Man, Channel Islands or any of our overseas territories.

 

[Random_23]

This is the reason I dont vote and never will. No1 in any goverment gives a rat's about anyone other than thereselve's. Lie after lie. I dont think England Wales and Scotland would miss any goverment tbh, I think a 1legged horse would do a better job.

 

[Padders]

Under the banner of British Territories: Gibraltar, Falkland Islands

Under the banner of British Isles: Isle of Man (Irish Sea)

Under the banner of Channel Islands: Guernsey, Jersey, Alderney etc (English Channel)

None of the above are included in the UK.

 

[Burnsy2023]

No, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is exactly that and does not include the Isle of Man, Channel Islands or any of our overseas territories.

I stand corrected, but my point stands thats UK and GB cannot be used interchangably.

Burnsy

 

[Padders]

This is the reason I dont vote and never will. No1 in any goverment gives a rat's about anyone other than thereselve's. Lie after lie. I dont think England Wales and Scotland would miss any goverment tbh, I think a 1legged horse would do a better job.

This is why referendums aren't necessarily a good idea. For a referendum to be effective and representative, an informed and motivated electorate is required.

 

[Greg]

Actually, Great Britian and the UK are different and can't be used interchangably.

Like you have said, the UK is GB and Northern Ireland, plus other territories like the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and places like Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands.

For GB to be used correctly, it must only refer to England, Scotland and Wales.

Burnsy

Indeed, when you say UK, it can only be for as you said above, when you say Great Britain, its only England, Scotland and Wales that are included.

My mistake, I know what I mean in my mind!

 

[leaskovski]

From a fairly quick skim read there doesn't appear to be anything too contentious in that treaty, it stops short of being a constitution and the UK seems to have retained all the veto powers it had before which makes it a bit of a non-event as far as we are concerned.



Why does this creep into so many threads? It isn't even directly on point and both points are dubious anyway, we don't yet know if Scotland would be out of the EU, chances are high that some negotiation would have to take place but that we'd be pretty quickly back in and the comment about the drain on Englands economy is also a bit pointless - near enough everywhere outside London constitutes a net drain on the economy.

I heard something about the "redlines" this morning and though, well what is the point of them. Something about them only being valid for 5 years and then we either have to leave or fully implement what is being veto'd.

So we will be part of it for 5 years then we will leave or become part of the USE.

Edit:

Found something on it here....

http://ironiestoo.blogspot.com/2007/10/bruges-group-on-red-line-breach.html

 

[SoSolid]

Hope thats soon as well, quite the drain on Englands economy to support you!

Well said, I am fed up of listening to moaning jocks. Leave the United kingdom and stop draining the english of our money, you will all starve no doubt and want back in. Do you honestly think it makes a difference to me if Scotland leave or stay lol no one cares.

 

[SGCWill]

Well said, I am fed up of listening to moaning jocks. Leave the United kingdom and stop draining the english of our money, you will all starve no doubt and want back in. Do you honestly think it makes a difference to me if Scotland leave or stay lol no one cares.

Yeah, because obviously Scotland is incapable of surviving without you

If they are so poor, howcome English kings have always wanted Scotland and Ireland?

What's everyones opinion on N.Ireland, are we STILL (I know we were) a drain on your economy? Or has the massive increase in tourism changed your opinions? Not to mention the lowest unemployment rates in the UK.

 

[Jet]

It's absolutely disgusting that this is going through without a referendum.

For example, Britain can carry on participating in joint efforts to combat cross-border terrorism and organised crime, but will keep control of our borders. Instead of establishing a new constitutional basis for the EU, the treaty amends previous EU treaties.

This is what the Maastricht, Nice and Amsterdam treaties did. They were not "constitutional" and Britain did not hold a referendum on any of them.

So why this one?